조이 디비전 다큐멘터리(Joy Division, 2007)

번역: 미야코 suedebar@hanmail.net
(상업적 이용 금지, 수정 재배포 자유)

 

근대성이란 우리에게 도전, 권력, 행복, 발전, 변혁을 약속할 환경을 스스로 발견한다는 데에서 온다. 그와 동시에 우리가 가진 모든 것, 모든 지식, 우리 존재를 파멸시키려 위협하는 것이기도 하다. ㅡ마샬 버먼 저 "견고한 모든 것은 공기 속으로 사라진다" (1982)

 

오 주여, 이 도시에 미래를 비춰주소서

 

영원히 번영하도록

 

그 누구도 희생되지 않는

 

정의의 도시가 되도록

 

부익부 빈익빈이 사라지는

 

풍요의 도시가 되도록

 

노력한 자만이 성공할 수 있는

 

인간적인 도시가 되도록

 

이 모든 영광이 오직 주에게 향하나이다

 

뜻한 일이 뜻대로 이루어지는

 

평화의 도시가 되도록

 

성모의 빛과 기운이 사랑으로 화하여

 

온 방방곡곡에 가득하기를
[청교도 신학문헌 발췌]

 

저는 이게 어느 팝 그룹만의 이야기가 아닌

 

한 도시의 이야기라고 생각합니다

 

한때는 빛나고 대담하고 혁명적이었지만

 

삼십 여 년이 흐른 지금은

 

그 모든 것이 다 사라져버렸죠

 

이 모든 변혁의 중심에는

 

여러 사람들이 있었지만
그중에서도 특별한 자들이 있죠

 

시간을 되돌려보자

 

시간을 거슬러올라

 

또 다른 기억을 되살려봐

 

그때를

 

5, 4, 3, 2, 1

 

70년대 중반의 만체스터는 지금도 생생해요

 

시끌벅적했던 역사의 한 부분입니다

 

이곳은 현대 사회의 역사적인 중심부였죠

 

우린 이곳에서 산업혁명을 일으켰고

 

그리고 이런 상황도 자초했지요

 

여긴 정말로 때 묻고 더러운

 

낡은 동네였어요

 

이런 추한 곳에만 있다보면

 

아름다운 것만을 추구하게 되요

 

알게 모르게 잠재적으로

 

아홉 살 때까지는 나무 한 그루 못 봤어요

 

이곳이 놀이터다

 

대문에 마당에

 

닥치는 대로 뛰어놀아라

 

주위엔 그저 공장들하고

 

아름다운 건 하나도 없었어요

 

 

만체스터에 첨 왔을 때가 생각나요

 

테라스가 다닥다닥 붙은 집들하고

 

그게 아니면 곳곳에 무너진 건물 잔해였죠

 

그리고 그 다음에는

 

짓다 만 건물 밖에 없었고요

 

그리고 나서 십대가 되니까

 

거대한 콘크리트 요새가 생기고

 

왠지 미래적인 뭔가가 느껴졌어요

 

물론 낡고 균열이 생기면서

 

무시무시해 보였죠

 

전 1956년에 태어났는데

 

조부모 댁에서 살았어요

 

허구헌날 전쟁 얘기만 하셨죠

 

그분들은 폭격을 맞으셨어요

 

집이 날아갔었대요

 

그 집에 있던 창고에는

 

방독면에 철모에 국기에

 

오래 된 라디오로 그득했어요

 

전쟁 비축용품 같은 거요

 

전 버나딘 살포드 중고교를 나왔어요

 

열한 살쯤 되면

 

죽음 같은 건 의연해지잖아요?

 

살포드에 사는 건 뭐랄까

 

정말로 보잘 것 없는 사람이 되요

 

세상에 도움이 될 일이 전혀 없는 거예요

 

그저 공장 일꾼으로만 길러져요

 

그래서 음, 우린 그냥 그렇게
시간을 축내고 있었어요

 

뭐라 말할 것도 없이 우린

 

그냥 평범하게 맥주나 마시고 노는
애들이었어요

 

일하던 당시에 많은 걸 읽곤 했는데

 

주로 석간 신문을 통해서요

 

어느날 뭐 재밌는 거 없나 하면서

 

광고를 슥 훑어보다가

 

섹스 피스톨스 공연
50 페니라고 써있길래

 

"오 재밌겠다" 싶었죠

 

한 방에 훅 갔어요
뭐에 쾅 부딪힌 것처럼

 

세상에, 이런 건 본 적도 없어

 

솔직히 다른 그룹도 많이 봐왔지만

 

딥 퍼플이나 레드 제플린 등등

 

그치만 이렇게 정신없고 짜릿하면서도

 

반항적인 그런 거

 

처음으로 느꼈지

 

다 막 때려치고 싶을 만큼

 

정말 제대로 된 소음이랄까

 

듣는 순간 "썅 나도 하겠는데"

 

"바로 이거야"라고 생각했어요

 

그날 밤 바로 거기서 밴드를 결성했어요

 

그룹을 결성한 거예요

 

만드는 거야 쉽지

 

그 다음이 어렵지

 

그 다음에 또 섹스 피스톨스 공연을 보러 갔는데

 

버즈콕스가 같이 했어요

 

그래서 거길 찾아갔죠

 

걔네랑 금요일에 따로 만나서 얘기했어요

 

"우리도 밴드를 하려는데 좀 도와달라"

 

그래서 펑크를 포함한 음악이니깐

 

끼리끼리 모여서

 

이것 저것 따지다보니

 

어떻게 잘 하겠냐 싶었죠

 

드러머랑 가수 구인 광고를 냈는데

 

전화가 왔고 꽤 진지했어요

 

이름이 뭐냐고 하니까 이언이래요

 

이언 누구 하니까 "이언 커티스"

 

그래서 "아하"

 

왜냐면 이언이 둘이었거든요

 

가수 모집을 해서 이언이 왔어요

 

세일에 있는 술집에서 걔를 만났어요

 

처음 보자마자 "어우, 뭐냐"

 

뭔가 무서운 놈이었어요
가죽 바지에

 

등짝에 "증오"라고 휘갈긴 군복 같은 재킷에

 

그 동네에서 꽤나 유명했어요

 

다들 "뭐야 저거?" 이러고

 

1976년 당시에 만체스터에서
그러고 다니기엔 꽤 위험해보였죠

 

그래서 "아 이언이 둘이지 그치?"

 

"우리 전에 클래쉬 공연에서 봤지 그래"

 

저는 그래서 펑크 정신 같은 거 있잖아요

 

결혼생활 같은 건 따분하고

 

했더니 걔가 "어 나 결혼했는데"

 

하면서 결혼반지를 보여주더라고요

 

"이거 괜찮은 놈이구나"하고 생각했죠

 

"어 그래 상관없어" 그랬어요

 

"어 맞어 맞어 그게 나야"

 

"어 그래 그래"

 

"그래 좋아 너로 할게"

 

그게 다였어요, 전화로만

 

남편의 작곡을 위해 세모난 방을 치웠다. 이언은 벽을 하늘색으로 칠했고, 카펫도 의자도 커튼도 모두 파란색이었다. ㅡ데보라 커티스

 

첫 곡은 겨우 펑크 흉내만 낸 거였어요

 

완전 수박 겉핥기로 엄청 구렸어요

 

무얼 하는 지도 몰라
어딜 가는 지도 몰라

 

혼자 망하지 말고 너와 바꿀 걸

 

잘난 듯이 지껄이는데

 

넌 아무것도 아냐

 

예 예 예 예

 

꺼져 꺼져

 

예 예 예 예

 

병신 병신들

 

있죠 그냥, 진짜로 끔찍하게...

 

끔찍하게 구린 곡들이었어요

 

됐어

 

나나나나나나나나 됐어

 

펑크 밴드 바르샤바 드러머 구함
전화를 걸었죠

 

첨에는 그냥 멍청한 놈이겠거니 싶었는데

 

막상 얘기해보니
이언은 공손하고 말도 많았어요

 

처음으로 같이 공연한 게
일렉트릭 서커스의 마지막 날인가

 

일렉트릭 서커스는 어떤 곳이었냐면

 

히피들 멍때리고 놀던 덴데
갑자기 펑크 록이 들이닥쳤죠

 

일렉트릭 서커스에는 왜 오십니까?

 

펑크 록 밴드가 놀기 딱 좋으니까요

 

분위기도 좋고

 

이 형아 서커스에서 튀어나온 거 같다

 

그런 델 왜 가냐

 

플라스틱 펌프에서 나온 병들 같다

 

좀 제대로 대해주세요

 

나 보세요 아무것도 아니잖아요

 

그게 바로 펑크잖아

 

누구든지 맘대로 즐길 수 있죠

 

내키는 대로 날뛰고 뭐 어때?

 

그리곤 펑크 클럽으로 변해버리고

 

나중에는 아주아주 중요한 곳이 돼버렸어요

 

그러다가 또 잊혀졌죠

 

그때 있었던 일 같은 건

 

버진 음반사가 허접하게 녹음했죠

 

그리고 네, 바르샤바, 그때에

 

"루돌프 헤스를 잊지 말자" 같은
이상한 말을 해대고
(주: 히틀러의 심복, 나치 부총통)

 

그 당시엔 무슨 일이 일어나든

 

누구든지간에 의심할 여지도 없이

 

그런 발언은 위험한 것이었어요

 

근데 또 알 만한 사람들끼리

 

알 만한 데서 그러니까 개의치 않았죠

 

Can't buy everything, that's true

 

Only one thing wrong with that

 

What it don't buy I don't use

 

일하는 데에서 누가 책을 좀 줬어요

 

그중에 "인형의 집"이란 책이 있었는데

 

나치에 대한 책이어서 안 읽었어요

 

그냥 휘리릭 넘기다가

 

종군위안부란 단어가 눈에 들어왔어요

 

딱 보자마자 "이거 참 저질인데"

 

"근데 되게 펑크적이네"

 

주변에 물어봐도 "이름 괜찮네" 그러고

 

너무 차분하고 단정하게 들리는 감이
없잖아 있었긴 한데

 

결국엔 그 이름으로 가야 된다는
쪽으로 굳어졌어요

 

록시 뮤직이나 벨벳 언더그라운드 같이
들렸거든요

 

그냥 갑자기 탁 떠오르는 거 있잖아요

 

그 이름들이 바로 그랬어요

 

그러고 나서 그때에

 

첨으로 만든 음반이
"An Ideal for Living"인데

 

음악을 막 시작한 터라

 

사람들이 꼭 들어줬으면 했어요

 

스스로, 자립적으로 하자는
펑크 정신으로 가득했어요

 

대형 음반사는 보지 말고

 

그냥 작은 가내수공업으로

 

이언은 거실 가구를 산다며 은행 대출을 받았다. 400 파운드를 긁어모아 제작비를 댔다. 빚은 우리 부부 공동 계좌에서 차출했다. ㅡ데보라 커티스

 

이언이 나한테도 돈을 빌렸지

 

그게 이제 생각났으니 마누라가 날 죽일 거야

 

근데 그렇게 가버렸으니 뭐 어떡해

 

녹음실에서 작업하고 들어보니

 

꽤나 괜찮게 들리더라고요

 

몇 주 뒤에 판으로 냈죠

 

"Ideal for Living" 음반이요

 

표지는 제가 그리고

 

"좋아 다 됐다"

 

"클럽 핍스에 갖다놓자"

 

디제이한테 가서
"야 우리 판 좀 틀어주라"

 

"우리가 했어, 우리 음악이야"

 

했더니 "됐어 꺼져" 그러길래

 

"아 뭐야 좀 해주라"

 

"우리가 몇 년이나 고생해서
찍은 거야 인마" 그러고

 

해서 춤추는 사람들 쪽으로

 

음악이 떡 하니 나오는데

 

녹음이 너무 후지게 돼서

 

아주 그냥 뭉개진 거예요

 

그 싸한 분위기 말도 못해

 

춤추던 사람들이 다 굳어버려서

 

전부 다 나가버리는 거예요

 

디제이는 판을 내팽개쳐버리고

 

"아 염병할 이게 뭐냐"

 

그 후로 6개월이나 연주를 못 했어요

 

공연 자체를 할 수가 없었죠

 

아무도 조이 디비전을 세워주질 않는 거예요

 

정말로 너무 힘들었어요

 

사람들이 말하는 허접 뜨내기가
바로 우리였어요

 

그래서 연습에 연습을 거듭했어요

 

그리고 곡 쓰고 또 쓰고
진짜로 빡세게 연습했지

 

그러고 나서 공연이 잡히면
제대로 보여주려고 했죠

 

일주일에 두 번씩 연습했어요

 

그렇게 서너 시간 하고 나면
곡 하나씩 나오곤 했어요

 

 

큰 공장 바닥에서 연습하면서

 

겨울에는 쓰레기를 전부 쓸어모아

 

구석에 불을 때워서 난방을 했어요

 

우린 우리만의 공간에서

 

점점 좋은 사운드를 낸다는 걸

 

확신하게 되었죠

 

다른 사람들의 반응은
신경쓰지 않았어요

 

내가 낮게 연주하면 아무것도 안 들려

 

고음부 칠 때는 집어내는데

 

바니의 앰프 소리가 너무 컸거든

 

근데 이언이 높은 음을 계속 치게 하더니

 

"베이스가 고음인 게 괜찮게 들린다"
그러는 거예요

 

바니는 기타를 치고요

 

"우리 이걸로 해보자 진짜 독특하게 들려"

 

그 우연의 일치 덕분에
우리만의 소리를 찾아낸 거예요

 

이언은 늘 어휘가 풍부했어요

 

아무 말이나 끄집어내서 불러도
노래가 되는 거예요

 

그니까 이미 가사가 준비된 셈이죠

 

밤마다 이것저것 써대니까 그랬겠지

 

밴드 경연대회 같은 게 있었어요

 

신인 밴드들 나오는 그런 거

 

폴 몰리가 거기 나왔어요

 

케빈 쿠민즈도 있었고

 

리처드 분도 있었구나

 

걔들은 그냥 장난 같은 밴드였어요
놀자고 하는 거

 

조이 디비전을 포함해서 다들

 

이기려고 애썼죠

 

아메리칸 아이돌의
이상한 초창기 버전이었달까

 

그때가 바로 이언의 다른 면을
보게 된 거였어요

 

원래 이언은 너무나 다정하고

 

정말로 착하고 얌전하고
지적인 청년이었어요

 

그런데 걔도 자기가
그렇게 될 줄은 몰랐을 거예요

 

뭔가 광분한 것처럼

 

으아악! 이러면서

 

그런 미쳐 날뛰는 거요

 

아마도 일부러 그럴 수밖에 없었나봐요

 

이언이 걔들 대기실 문을
발로 차고 들어가서는

 

폴 몰리하고 케빈 쿠민즈한테

 

"너 같은 새끼들은 끝이야"

 

"그 따위로 하면 우리가 죽여버린다"

 

"그딴 식이면 우리가 밟아준다,
우리가 이길 거다"

 

이언은 그날 그러기 전에도
토니 윌슨한테 대들면서

 

씨발년이라고 욕하고 난리였어요

 

토니가 놀라서 "왜 그래 얘야"

 

"내가 뭘 어쨌다고 그러니" 하니까

 

이언이 "당신 프로에 안 내보내줄 거잖아"

 

토니는 티비 프로 사회자였는데

 

그놈한테 대답 안 했지

 

하지만 염두에 두고 있었지

 

"다음 차례다, 머저리"

 

그 후로 쭉 생각해봐도 모르겠는 거예요

 

어쩌다 그렇게 이상하게 전개된 건지

 

어떻게 저런 사람이 끼어들게 됐는지

 

리포터 토니 윌슨입니다

 

사우스워크 람버스 루이샴 지역의

 

보건 당국이 국내 최대 규모입니다

 

즐거운 서커스 관람 되시길

 

 

눈이 여덟 개에 더듬이 달린
외계인이라도 보는 기분이었죠

 

진짜로 토니 윌슨을 처음 봤을 때

 

무슨 다른 별에서 온 거 같았어요

 

연예계에 있는 사람이잖아요
스타였고

 

토니는 'So it Goes'라는 프로를 맡았는데

 

잘나가는 펑크, 뉴웨이브 밴드를
소개하는 거였어요

 

훌륭한 프로였죠

 

그리고 그 바닥에서 최고였어요

 

그 나이 어린 애들한테는

 

텔레비전 만한 게 없었으니까

 

라프터스에서 공연하는 다른 밴드들은
모두 출연했어요 그러고 싶어하니까

 

록 스타도 되고 싶고

 

음악업계에 발 담그고 싶으니까

 

한편으론 다른 선택의 여지가 없으니까
출연하는 거지

 

그 다음날 공중전화엘 갔어요

 

우체국 옆에 스프링 가든이었나

 

누가 문을 두드려서 "네?" 했더니

 

롭 그레튼이란 사람이 서있었어요
(조이 디비전의 매니저)

 

롭 그레튼은 클럽 라프터스의
디제이여서 알고 지냈지

 

지금도 생생하네요

 

저한테 정신없이 소리지르면서

 

자기 말대로 조이 디비전
정말 괜찮지 않았냐고

 

여지껏 본 놈들 중에서도
최고 아니냐면서

 

자기가 매니저 하고 싶다고

 

또 걔네들 데려다가

 

공연마다 다 세울 거라고요

 

롭 그레튼이 우리한테 처음 한 말이

 

"그딴 음반은 개나 줘"였어요

 

"거지 같은 표지 갖다 버려"

 

"사람들이 너희들 병신인 줄 안다"

 

"그 음반 싹 다 버려라,
누구 아이디어냐?"

 

그러면서 막 집어던졌어요

 

"이제 새 음반 표지로 다시 찍어"

 

"더 크게 들려야 되니까 12인치로 찍어"
그랬어요

 

그니까 롭은 제작하고
우리는 닥치고 연주하고

 

그렇게 시작했어요

 

"우와 진짜네, 환상적으로 들린다"

 

No, no love lost

 

롭이 디제잉 할 때는
소울을 틀곤 했는데

 

근데 그의 사상은 뼛속까지 펑크였어요

 

RCA 음반사의 리처드 셀링과 만났어요

 

이언은 전부터 RCA 사무실을 들락거렸는데

 

이기 팝을 흠모해서 그랬대요

 

펑크 밴드를 찾고 있었죠

 

펑크 밴드요

 

저는 다른 사람들은 전혀 몰랐는데

 

"어라, 이언 녀석 밴드 하네"

 

이언이 하고 싶었던 곡이 있다고

 

노던 소울의 "Keep On Keepin' On'인데

 

그 친구가 커버하는 거 듣고

 

솔직히 좀 놀랐어요

 

자가장장 거리는 기타 리프가 나왔거든요

 

Pick out your moment

 

You"ll be interested, I"ll bet, yeah

 

음향기사 실력이 정말 좋았을 거예요

 

이언 하면 꼭 생각나요

 

제임스 브라운처럼 노래하려고 했거든요

 

제임스 브라운처럼 노래할 거야 이러면서

 

위스키 한 병 들고는

 

제임스 브라운처럼 목청껏 부를 거라고

 

그러다 갑자기 괴팍해지고
개처럼 막 짖어대기도 하고

 

그러면 아 이놈 집에 보내야겠다 이랬죠

 

펑크는 "닥쳐, 꺼져"이러고 말아요

 

근데 그 이상은 없잖아

 

그건 그냥 단순히 독기에 찬

 

분노로 찬 한두 마디 말이에요

 

록큰롤을 다시 불붙이기에는
더할 나위 없겠지

 

하지만 언젠가는

 

누군가는 "꺼져"보다 더한 걸
얘기할 것이고

 

누구는 "난 망했어"라고
노래할 거예요

 

그게 조이 디비전이었고
그렇게 한 최초의 밴드였어요

 

펑크의 기운과 단순함을 바탕으로

 

보다 복잡한 감성을 표현한 거예요

 

저희 프로그램은 시청자 여러분께

 

언제나 최초로 소개합니다

 

비틀스부터 버즈콕스까지

 

이번에 소개해드리는 팀 역시

 

북서부에서 가장 흥미로운
사운드를 들려주는 밴드

 

조이 디비전입니다

 

최근 반 년간 선보인 밴드들 중에서도
단연 주목할 만합니다

 

만체스터 출신이며

 

기타리스트만 살포드 출신이고요

 

아주 중요한 차이이지요
(주: 서울시와 마포구 같은 차이 -_-)

 

조이 디비전의
"Shadowplay"란 곡 들으시겠습니다

 

To the center of the city
where all roads meet

 

Waiting for you

 

To the depths of the ocean
where all hopes sank

 

Searching for you

 

Moving through the silence without motion

 

Waiting for you

 

In a room with no window in the corner

 

I found truth

 

클럽 팩토리에서 공연하게 되면서

 

처음에는 늘 어느 정도

 

밴드와 사람들 사이에 공간이 생겨서

 

그 사이가 텅 비고 그랬어요

 

사람들이 서로 숨어서 지켜봤는데

 

두 번째 공연에서는 그 공간이

 

점점 좁아지게 되는 거예요

 

나중엔 그 앞에서 애들이 막 춤도 추고요

 

우와, 이거 봐 우리 관객 생겼네

 

어쩔 땐 정말 믿기 어려울 만큼

 

너무 너무 좋았던 때가 있어요

 

내 주변 사람에게서 그런 경외감을 느낀 게

 

이언이었어요, 이언이 바로 그랬죠

 

마치 뭐랄까 시저 같은 사람

 

다른 세상에서 온 사람 같았어요

 

첨엔 그랬죠 "이언이잖아,
마누라한테 꽃 사주는 녀석"

 

근데 이언이 무대에 오르면

 

완전히 감동적이고 홀려버려요

 

그러면 막

 

빨려들어가버려요

 

압도되지 절대로

 

To the center of the city
where all roads meet

 

Waiting for you

 

To the depths of the ocean
where all hopes sank

 

Searching for you

 

I was moving through the silence
without motion

 

Waiting for you

 

In a room with no window in the corner

 

I found truth

 

흠뻑 빠지게 되요

 

주술이라도 걸린 것처럼

 

그 찰나에서 벗어날 수 없어요

 

그 당시에 참 특이한 밴드였어요

 

과거에 돌아간 듯하면서도

 

한편으론 그 순간을 치닫는 거예요

 

시간이 멈춘 것처럼

 

In the shadowplay,
acting out your own death

 

Knowing no more

 

정말 너무나 충격적이었어요

 

믿을 수 없을 정도로

 

그게 기억난다는 게 더 소름돋아요

 

근데 머릿속에선, 본능적으로는

 

그냥 쩔어버려요 그냥, 워우

 

But I could only stare in disbelief

 

As the crowds all left

 

원래는 두 곡만 하고
단편 영화 촬영을 하려고 했어요

 

만체스터와 앤더튼에 대한 비판영화요

 

극우주의 경찰청장인데

 

밤마다 하나님과 대화한다고 믿었어요

 

자기에게 계시를 내린다고

 

그런 건 아주 위협적이죠

 

불길하고 흉흉했어요

 

지나가다 똥 밟는 기분

 

뭐 그래도 흘려보내면 되지만요

 

그 작자는 세상이 그 지경이었다는 걸
보여주는 한 예였어요

 

한편으론 클럽 팩토리가 부각되면서
파시스트적인 반대층도 생겨났죠

 

뭐랄까 돌려 말하자면

 

지하 연습실의 분위기는

 

어쩔 땐 무슨 저항단체 같기도 했어요

 

나중엔 그런 생각이 스쳤어요

 

이런 게 문화로 표현하는
우리의 저항일 수도 있다고

 

토니랑 알란이 78년 크리스마스에

 

이런 얘기를 했어요

 

클럽 이름으로 음반을 내자

 

계약 못 따낸 밴드들도 포함해서

 

너무 너무 흥분됐었어요

 

그러다 마틴 하넷이라는
제작자를 만났어요

 

그 팀은 제작자에게 축복이었어요
/ 어째서죠?

 

걔들은 아무것도 몰랐으니까요
/그렇군요

 

아무거나 다 시켜도
묻지도 따지지도 않으니까

 

그럼 맨 처음 해준 건 뭔가요?

 

팩토리 샘플에 들어갈 아이디어? /
네. "Digital"이란 곡이요

 

그 곡은 신이 내린 선물이에요!

 

I feel it closing in

 

The fear of whom I call

 

Every time I call

 

I feel it closing in

 

Day in, day out, day in, day out

 

Day in, day out, day in, day out, oh

 

"Digital"의 가사는 말 그대로 디지털이에요

 

on/off가 있고 day in/day out

 

그걸 껐다 켰다 하잖아요

 

또한 어쩌다보니 묘하게도
커티스의 자아와 연결됩니다

 

바이폴러(bipolar) 그 자체죠
(주: 양극성 신호, 조울증)

 

얼핏 보면 이 친구는

 

친구들과 술집에서 시시덕대다가도

 

다른 한 쪽으로는

 

시를 읽는, 예술을 사랑하는 사람이에요

 

스스로의 허황된 망상에 빠져

 

낭만적인 팝 스타 영웅이 되려 하고요

 

이언이 담패 피다가
카메라를 응시한 사진이 있는데

 

그 눈이, 살짝 투명한 그 눈빛이

 

카메라를 쳐다보는데 소름끼치죠

 

16, 17

 

 

20, 21 계속 찍었죠

 

그림자를 등지고도 찍었고

 

골목에서 서서히 나오면서도 찍고

 

이렇게 찍어대다가

 

필름의 2/3를 다 썼는데

 

별로 마땅한 게 없는 거예요

 

그러다 다리 위로 올라갔고
저쪽에서 다들 서있는데

 

그 때 느낌이 온 게 참 음울해 보였고

 

그리고 되게 록큰롤 답지가 않았어요

 

그래서 두 장을 찍고
비스듬하게 또 찍었어요

 

그게 이 사진의 전부였고

 

그래서 그게 아마도

 

조이 디비전을 가장 잘 나타내주는
모습이 아닌가 싶어요

 

결국에는 자기 밴드를
대형 음반사와 계약시키는 거잖아요

 

어느 일요일 밤에 그레튼하고
밴드온더월 클럽에 있었는데

 

그레튼이 나한테 갑자기

 

"당신이 우리 첫 앨범을 내주고
워너 브라더스와 계약합시다" 그러는 거예요

 

진심으로 기가 막혔죠 "헐"

 

진심이냐고 되묻고 싶었어요

 

얼마나 드는지 아냐고 물었더니

 

"마틴이 1만 파운드라던데" 이러네

 

2만 5천 파운드거든, 망할 놈들

 

"Unknown Pleasures" 앨범은
3주 걸린 거 같아요

 

아닌가 아마 녹음하고 믹싱까지
3주였던 거 같아요

 

전부 라이브로 연주했는데

 

마틴하고 처음 작업한 게
그걸 녹음했던 거였어요

 

실험적인 시간이었고

 

마틴이 괴상한 소음을 넣기도 했어요

 

승강기 소리 같은 거요

 

마치 이상한 SF 여행이라도 떠나는 듯했죠

 

마리화나 피운 연기로 자욱했거든요

 

마틴은 이래라 저래라

 

콕 집어서 얘길 안 해줘요

 

"다시 해봐, 대신 칵테일 파티처럼"

 

"노랑을 좀 더 가미해서"

 

"장엄하면서도 소탈하게"

 

"빠르면서도 느리게"

 

그게 그냥 마리화나든지
/ 좋았어

 

아니면 도 닦는데 필요한 건지

 

준비됐지

 

한 번 더 해보자

 

쉬었다 합시다 좀...

 

커피나 마셔

 

AMS라고 디지털 딜레이 장치가 있어요

 

마틴이 버튼을 누르면
그게 스네어 드럼을 치고

 

와, 스네어 드럼이 기계에 입력됐어

 

마틴 어떻게 한 거야? 놀랄 노자네

 

마틴이 그 기계로 드럼 소리를
완전히 뒤바꿔버렸어요

 

마틴이 그 기계 개발에
관여한 줄은 꿈에도 몰랐어요

 

AMS를 만든 두 명의 달인이 있는데

 

한 명이 랑커셔주 번리에 사는데

 

마틴 하넷을 알게 돼서

 

한 달에 한 번씩 주차장에서 만난대요

 

만체스터와 번리 사이에 있는 황야에서

 

그러면 이 미친 약물 중독자는
허름한 볼보를 끌고 나갔다가

 

자동차 뒤로 가서는

 

머릿속에서 새로운 음향을 상상하면서
30분을 꼼짝도 않고 있어요

 

이건 좀 잡설인데
마틴은 조이 디비전을 이해할
방법을 제시했어요

 

그가 무언갈 듣고

 

그것을 보았고

 

그들한테서 느낀 게 있으니까

 

마음속에 떠올린 계획을
실행할 수 있었을 거예요

 

어쨌든 곡들은 훌륭했어요

 

마틴은 작곡하지 않고

 

녹음 제작만 했지만

 

마틴이 시작한 거예요
그를 필요로 할 때에 짠 나타난 거죠

 

물론 그게 프로듀서가 할 일이긴 하죠

 

음반 속지까지도 전부 다 기억해요

 

그게 이젠 수납장에 꽂혀있는게
참으로 묘한 기분이에요

 

록시 뮤직과 벨벳 언더그라운드와
나란히 꽂혀있다는 게 말이죠

 

전혀 이상하지 않았어요

 

무려 데이빗 보위의 "Diamond Dogs"
앨범 옆에 놓였는데 말이죠

 

정말이지 명반이에요

 

어떤 말로도 표현할 수 없고

 

뭐라고 표현할 수조차 없었어요

 

그냥 그 자체로 완벽하고

 

그게 어디서 어떻게 생겨난 건지
짐작조차 못 해요

 

표지는 제가 의도한 그대로 만들었어요

 

음반 진열대에서 찾아보니

 

아무도 고치거나 한 구석이 없더라고요

 

음악은 들어보지도 못하고
저한테 기초적인 요구만 보냈어요

 

그 주파수 무늬가 참 놀랍잖아요

 

그 무늬가 "Unknown Pleasure"라는
하나의 놀라운 이미지를 만든 거예요

 

롭 그레튼의 집에서 그걸 보고

 

초안을 만들어서 롭한테 보여주니까

 

그제서야 롭이 "데모 나왔는데"

 

"한 번 들어볼래?" 하더라고요

 

조이 디비전이라는 밴드를
다 들어줄 수 있을진 몰랐어요

 

특히나 매니저 앞인데

 

그치만 거절할 순 없었죠

 

속으로는 왠지 내 인생을 바꿀 만한
경험이겠다는 생각도 들었어요

 

한 소절 두 소절 나올 때마다
제 예상을 뛰어넘더라고요

 

차원이 달라

 

믿기 힘들만큼 놀라웠어요

 

첫 곡이 나오자마자

 

여지껏 들어본 적이 없는
드럼 소리가 들리는 거예요

 

뭔가 제자리에 있던 것들이
제대로 연결되지 않는 묘한 기분에

 

뭔가 엄청난 일이 터졌다는 거

 

I've been waiting for a guide

 

To come and take me by the hand

 

Could these sensations

 

Make me feel the pleasures of a normal man?

 

These sensations barely interest me
for another day

 

I've got the spirit, lose the feeling

 

Take the shock away

 

"Unknown Pleasures" 앨범을 듣자마자

 

그건 마치 뭐랄까

 

이건 우리 주변 환경을 노래한
앰비언트 음악이구나

 

생각해보면 조이 디비전은

 

거의 앰비언트 밴드에 가깝잖아요

 

기존의 밴드로서의 기능을 한다기보단

 

우리 주변에 널린 소리를 표현했어요

 

만체스터란 도시를
SF적으로 재해석했다

 

음악을 들으면 풍경이 펼쳐져요

 

추상적이고 음악적으로
만체스터 그 자체를 표현한 거예요

 

그들이 만체스터를 세계적으로
만든 게 정말 대단했어요

 

아니 우주적으로 말이죠

 

It's getting faster, moving faster now

 

It's getting out of hand

 

On the tenth floor, down the back stairs

 

It's a no man's land

 

Lights are flashing, cars are crashing

 

Getting frequent now

 

I've got the spirit, lose the feeling

 

Let it out somehow

 

"Unknown Pleasures"의 음악은 또한

 

아이팟과도 같은 세상이에요

 

도회적이면서도 그렇지 않고

 

풍경을 노래하는 음악인데

 

그 풍경의 본질은 자연이 아닌
건축물에 기반한 거예요

 

그리고 지금까지도 무척 중요한 것은

 

우리가 살면서 익히 지나온 것들이면서도

 

지금 다시 들어보아도
너무나 현대적인 사운드라는 거죠

 

I'm watching you, I'm watching her

 

I take no pity from your friends

 

Who is right, who can tell?

 

And who gives a damn right now?

 

Until the spirit new sensation takes hold

 

Then you know

 

Until the spirit new sensation takes hold

 

Then you know

 

Until the spirit new sensation takes hold

 

Then you know

 

I've got the spirit

 

But lose the feeling

 

I've got the spirit

 

But lose the feeling

 

Feeling, feeling, feeling, feeling

 

Feeling, feeling, feeling

 

"Unknown Pleasures" 앨범은
평단의 뜨거운 찬사를 받았어요

 

이제 이놈의 바닥에서
그 앨범을 안 좋아하는 사람은

 

나랑 버나드 뿐일 거예요
참 어이없죠 안 그래요?

 

우리 둘이 딱 하나 동감한 게

 

바로 그거예요

 

우리가 녹음했음에도 불구하고

 

너무나 어둡고 암울해서
도저히 못 들어주겠는 거예요

 

게다가 녹음 과정에서 더 암울하고
더 어둡게 되어버렸어요

 

그래서 처음엔 그랬죠

 

"이거 너무 무거워서 아무도 안 듣겠는데"

 

그렇잖아요 너무 난해해요

 

We

 

Were strangers

 

We

 

우린 살면서

 

힘든 걸 너무 많이 겪어봤어요

 

우린 그냥 스물 한 살짜리였는데

 

나만 해도 죽거나 병든 가족을
많이 봐왔어요

 

어린 나이에 그런 걸 경험하면
너무 진지하고 심각한 사람이 돼요

 

이언도, 걔가 쓴 가사들을 떠올리면

 

하는 행동도 그렇고 너무 진지했어요

 

We were strangers
이언은 장애인 재활원에서 일하며 장애인들과 친하게 지냈다. 또 그들에게 제대로 된 복지 혜택을 받아야 한다고 말해줬다. 상담자에겐 깊은 관심을 보이고 극진히 배려했다. ㅡ데보라 커티스

For way too long
이언은 장애인 재활원에서 일하며 장애인들과 친하게 지냈다. 또 그들에게 제대로 된 복지 혜택을 받아야 한다고 말해줬다. 상담자에겐 깊은 관심을 보이고 극진히 배려했다. ㅡ데보라 커티스

 

"She's Lost Control"이란 곡은

 

이언이 장애인 센터에서 일할 때 만난
한 여자에 대한 노래예요

 

그 여자가 맘에 들었었나봐요

 

어느 착한 여자를 알게 돼서

 

여자를 다른 곳에서 일하게
도와주려고 했는데

 

어느날 여자가 발작으로 죽어서

 

그것 때문에 충격을 받아요

 

근데 이언도 간질 증세가 있었거든요

 

그 후에 이언이 쓴 가사가
"She's Lost Control"이에요

 

이번 순서는 이언 커티스가 부르는
근사한 곡 "She's Lost Control"입니다

 

Confusion in her eyes that says it all

 

She's lost control

 

And she's clinging to the nearest passer-by

 

She's lost control

 

And she gave away the secrets of her past

 

And said she's lost control again

 

And a voice that told her when
and where to act

 

She said I've lost control again

 

79년 9월에 BBC 2 채널을 보는데

 

그런 티비 무대는 난생 처음 봤어요

 

이언 커티스의 무대나 밴드의 연주가

 

매체라는 아성을 산산히 부숴뜨렸어요

 

그런 식으로 음악을 하는
사람도 없었을 뿐더러

 

자고 일어나니 유명해진 거예요

 

나도 보면서 엄청 놀라고

 

Dance, dance, dance, dance,
dance to the radio

 

Well, I would call out
when the going gets tough

 

The things you've learned
are no longer enough

 

No language, just sound,
that's all we need know

 

To synchronize love to the beat of the show

 

And we could dance

 

Dance, dance, dance, dance,
dance to the radio

 

자기들이 만들어낸
그 특별한 뭔가를 깨달아야 했어요

 

그중에서도 이언의 이상이 워낙 높아서
결국엔 파국을 초래한 거죠

 

하지만 나머지 멤버들도
각자의 포부는 있었을 거예요

 

세상에서 가장 위대한
베이시스트가 되겠다 같은 거라도요

 

난 우리가 그저
활기차게 연주했으면 했어요

 

그땐 그랬죠 순전히

 

우울한 사운드는 싫었어요

 

찢어버리는 듯한 것도 싫고

 

그냥 정신없이 즐기게 만들고 싶었어요

 

이기 팝 공연처럼요

 

너무 심각하거나 그런 거엔 관심 없었고

 

그냥 끝내주는 걸 하고 싶었어요

 

조이 디비전의 음악은 남달라요

 

무대 위에선 특히 강렬하고요

 

공연할 때 이언은
그야말로 매력적이었어요

 

독특하게 노래하고 춤추잖아요

 

벨기에의 플랜 K에서 공연했는데

 

이언이 아닉을 만난 거예요

 

멤버들은 십대 시절에
여행을 많이 못 했을 거예요

 

그들이 유럽에 처음 갔을 때

 

무슨 일이 일어나겠구나 싶었어요

 

그건 중요한 단계였어요

 

처음으로 고향을 멀리 떠난 것

 

그리고 플랜 K에서 공연했어요

 

카바레 볼테어도 목록에 있었어요

 

원래는 설탕 공장을 개조한 곳인데

 

제법 예술적인 구석이 있어요

 

그래서 거길 찾아가서 구경하고

 

"와 우리 뭔가 대단해" 그랬죠

 

그들의 매력은 비트 작가
윌리엄 버로스도 끌어당겼죠

 

Pay it all, pay it all,
pay it all back

 

Play all your reports back

 

밴드가 공연했을 때

 

다른 층에서는 행위 예술을 하고

 

또 다른 방에서는 영화를 틀었어요

 

Boys, school showers and swimming pools

 

예술 나부랭이로 득시글했지

 

사람들 모두 한 예술 하는 양
이러고 다니면서

 

"어머나, 조이 디비전이래"

 

"자기들 너무 훌륭하고 탁월해요"
이러고, 프랑스어로

 

웃겼던 게 이언이 버로스한테서
책을 한 권 얻겠다는 거예요

 

왜냐면 자긴 버로스의 책을
다 사서 읽었대나 뭐래나

 

무슨 생각으로 그랬는지 모르겠지만

 

아무튼 자기한테 책 줄 거라고

 

버나드랑 나랑 너무 웃겼던 게

 

셋이서 버로스한테 갔는데

 

낭독을 하고 있었어요

 

근데 이언이 노래를 부르면서

 

그쪽으로 가는 거예요

 

나랑 버나드는 기둥 뒤에 숨었죠

 

뭐라고 했는지는 잘 모르겠는데

 

버로스가 이언한테
"아 꺼져 이놈아!" 그랬어요

 

네놈들의 뻔한 수작에는 이제 질린다

 

아 두고두고 웃고 그랬는데

 

이언은 완전 창피해했죠

 

이언은 버로스의 팬이었어요

 

버로스는 탈산업화 시대에
악몽과 같은 상황에 대한 글을 썼어요

 

편협함과 윤리의식 결여를 성토하고

 

냉소, 증오로 가득찬 세상,
전체주의나 어두운 관점

 

광란에 빠진 서방 세계의 탐욕

 

사고와 인식에 대한 본질 등이요

 

이러한 주제는 독자로 하여금
통합으로 가는 길을 제시해줍니다

 

예술이나 문학 분야에만 그치지 않고
보다 친숙한 글램 록이나

 

프로그레시브 록이라는
대중 문화로 불거진 거예요

 

우리가 유명해지고
공연이 점점 늘어나면서

 

직장을 그만두기로 했어요

 

반 직업 상태는 이제 접고

 

본격적으로 해보자

 

버즈콕스 투어에 따라간 게
제대로 록큰롤다운 경험이었죠

 

투어 스탭도 있고

 

그리고 조이 디비전이나 버즈콕스나
온갖 추접한 짓거릴 다 하고 놀았죠

 

스탭이고 멤버고 말할 것도 없이

 

그놈이 재떨이에 오줌 쌌다니깐
드러운 새끼

 

뭔가 이따만한 게 막...

 

관리인 쳐들어오고

 

거기 그거 먹어봐

 

이놈은 멱살 잡히면서
재떨이에 오줌 싸고

 

정신이 하나도 없었어요

 

그놈이 "어, 어, 어!"

 

"시키는 대로 다 할게"

 

걘 문신도 새겼어요

 

애벌레 뭉치 그림에

 

등짝에 손이 그려져있고

 

생쥐를 그 안에다 집어넣고

 

"차 안에 장비 다 있다"

 

그러는데 문 열어보면
맥주만 가득 들어차있고

 

"너도 문신 함 해봐"

 

술집을 털었어!

 

그리고 빨간 별무늬 두 개
"그냥 이걸로 할게"

 

술집 주인이 경호원
다섯 명을 데리고 막 쫓아오는데!

 

으아 씨발 너 땜에 좆됐다!

 

가랑이 걷어차고

 

약에 쩔어서

 

멍청하게 웃으면서 쪼개는 표정으로
말 못하는 미친놈처럼

 

프랑스놈이었나?
"꺼져"를 못 알아듣더라고

 

그놈이 "알았어 알았어"

 

"꼬죠!" 그랬잖아

 

조이 디비전이 경계선을 넘은 건

 

"Dead Souls" 시기라고 할 수 있죠

 

이 곡은 매우 진보적이고
촘촘하게 짜여져 있어요

 

3분이 다 지나서야 노래가 나오죠

 

그 시간동안 이언은 무대 위에서
자리를 잡을 기회가 생기는데

 

관객들의 분위기를 파악하면서도

 

뒤에 있는 멤버들과는 차단됩니다

 

어느날 밤엔

 

약에 취한 것처럼 굴었어요

 

사람들도 그걸 보고 착각했죠

 

그치만 이언은 절대로 한 적이 없어요

 

얼핏 보면 약을 하는 것 같지만

 

그는 그냥

 

음악이 그를 취하게 하는 거예요
무아지경에 빠지는 거죠

 

이언이 춤추기 시작하면

 

한마디로 다른 세상에 빠져버려요

 

Keep on calling me

 

They keep calling me

 

조이 디비전의

 

"Dead Souls"입니다

 

언제나 명랑한 주제를 선택하네요 그쵸?

 

여러분 중 몇몇 분은 재미 없다고

 

저희 BBC에 항의 편지를 보내시겠네요

 

좋은 정보를 알려드리자면

 

음반 제목이 "Sordide Sentimental"인데요

 

Sordid에 E가 붙었네요

 

프랑스어처럼 보이려고?
네 프랑스어 맞습니다

 

한두 군데 음반점에서밖에 없는데

 

접히도록 돼있어서
보통 음반보다 크게 나왔습니다

 

한편으로는 책 같아요

 

그이는 그 음반을 좋아했어요

 

속지도 너무 자랑스러워하고

 

정말 아름답다고 하면서요

 

생각해보면 웃긴게

 

딱 1,578 장만 찍어냈어요

 

롭은 런던에 있으면서

 

그걸 잔뜩 들고 와서는

 

"하나씩 가져. 프랑스에서 건너온 거야"

 

근데 이틀 뒤에 다 동나버렸어

 

영영 사라진 거예요

 

그래서 나중엔 카세트로 유통됐죠
존 필이 라디오로 매일매일 틀어댔거든요

 

나중엔 사본을 남겨두질 못해서
너무 유감스러워했어요

 

오늘 저녁엔 B면을 틀어드리기로 했죠

 

들어보시겠습니다

 

Walk in silence

 

Don't walk away

 

오 맙소사, 깜빡 했어요

 

죄송합니다. 창피하네요

 

판 크기를 착각해버렸어요

 

거의 절반은 넘게 틀어버린 것 같네요

 

프랑스라는 게 원래
국경을 넘나들어와서는

 

널빤지 맛 같은 사과나 팔고

 

재생 속도도 다른 음반을
틀어버리게 만들었네요

 

참고로 저는 새신부 딸자식과
통화중이었습니다

 

사진엔 담배를 물고 서있는
네 명의 젊은이들일 뿐이에요

 

"그래 뭐" 이러기만 하고

 

잘 차려 입지도 못하고
비쩍 마른 친구들이요

 

영국 북부 하면 떠오르는 거겠지만

 

네덜란드에서 온 저에겐 좀 충격이었어요

 

뭐랄까 사회적으로 그런 감이랄까

 

영국에 오니까 극심한 가난에

 

사람들은 술 담배만 해대고

 

작은 셔츠에 얇은 코트 하나만 걸쳐요

 

그러고 겨울을 나요

 

그 네 명을 보고 더 믿기 어려웠어요

 

농담이나 하는 그런 녀석들인데

 

그렇게 젊은데 이토록 무겁고 심각한
음악을 한다는 게 말예요

 

특히나 이언은 무대에 오르면

 

갑자기 다른 사람으로 돌변해요

 

무언가 아주 강력한 힘에
사로잡힌 것처럼요

 

그럼 전혀 다른 세계에서 온
사람처럼 보이는 거예요

 

정말 너무나도 호소적이고

 

그와 동시에 강해 보이면서도
너무나 약한 것 같았어요

 

아주 연약한 그런 느낌이요

 

그이가 노래하고 춤추는 데에

 

자부심이 있어보였어요

 

우린 따분하고 평범한 삶을 살잖아요

 

그치만 아주 멋진 가수가 있어요

 

한 시간 가량 그들을 바라보면서

 

그들의 눈으로 우리 인생을 사는 거예요

 

이언이 등장할 때는 수줍고 조용해 보여요

 

그러다 무대 전체를 장악해버립니다

 

조명이 비추면 그 안에서 빛나죠

 

Take a chance and step outside

 

Take a chance and say you tried

 

이언은 뭔가 거대한 전기에
홀로 연결돼 있는 것 같아요

 

거기서부터 경련하듯이
움찔거리는 몸짓을 만들어냅니다

 

인간이라는 것을 상징하듯이

 

Say you tried

 

이언이 격렬한 광기에 휩싸일 때는

 

보는 사람도 어쩔 줄 모르게 되요

 

그는 꼭두각시 인형 같아요
인형 같은 몸짓을 보면서

 

그의 나약한 내면을 느끼게 되죠

 

마치 행위예술가라도 보는 양

 

고의로 자신을 찢어발깁니다

 

물론 이언은 피흘리진 않죠

 

대신에 관객을 위해
자신의 무언가를 희생하는 거예요

 

Say you tried

 

우린 네덜란드 독일 등
유럽을 돌면서 공연했어요

 

그리고 미국에 가려고 했어요

 

한 2~3주만 다녀오려고 했죠

 

동네에 널린 극장들 마냥

 

평범한 음반사를 하고 싶진 않았어요

 

그렇다고 버즈콕스랑 어울릴 때의

 

경험까지 모두 할 수는 없었어요

 

그건 진짜로 영혼이 파괴되는 것 같았어요

 

런던의 홉앤앵커에서 공연했어요

 

이언이 이상하게 굴었어요

 

뭔가 어린애처럼 굴었죠

 

원래 그런 놈이 아닌데

 

새벽에 찾아가서

 

공연을 하는데

 

고작 서너 명 밖에 없었어요

 

새벽 두 시였나

 

그 다음에 고속도로를 타고 가는데

 

저한테 침낭이 있었어요

 

이언이 갑자기 공연이 음향이
어쩌고 저쩌고 불평하는 거예요

 

그러더니 "야 침낭 내놔"

 

이기적인 놈이 아니었는데
전혀 걔답지 않았어요

 

뒤돌아서 제 침낭을 나꿔채길래

 

"지랄하지 말고 내놔" 그러면서

 

당겼더니, 걔도 잡아당겨요

 

또 잡아당기면서 버티니까

 

그걸 홱 잡아채더니

 

그걸 머리에 뒤집어쓰고
둘둘 말아버리는 거예요

 

그러곤 이상한 소리로
으르렁대기 시작했어요

 

말 그대로 으르렁대면서

 

그니까, 개처럼

 

그러더니 팔을 쭉 빼서

 

스티브한테 막 휘젓고

 

그러다 차창에 주먹질했어요

 

계속 차창을 쳐대면서

 

차 안을 온통 휘저으면서 쳐댔어요
[전신발작: 전신성 강직 발작]

 

스티브가 운전하니까

 

내가 "차 세워 차 세워"

 

격하게 저항하는 걔를 끌어내가지고

 

바닥에 눕히고 세게 밀쳤어요

 

한밤중에 깜깜한데
얘가 꼭지가 확 돌아버렸나

 

그 순간 이언이 발작이 일어났어요

 

그 때가 막 간질 증세가 있다고
진찰 받은 직후였는데

 

그게 점점 더 잦아지는 거예요

 

간질로 고생하는 사람은
생활하기 점점 더 힘들어지는데

 

간질이라는 낙인이
평생 따라다니기 때문이죠

 

그걸 앓는 사람이 조심할 것은...

 

우린 어쩔 줄 몰랐어요

 

익숙치 않았으니까요

 

그 전에도 발작이 있는 사람을
대해본 적이 없어요

 

우린 그냥 가만히

 

뭐라고 말해줄지 몰랐어요

 

게다가 사내놈들인데
남자들끼린 말을 안 하잖아

 

확실히 우린 대화가 부족했어요

 

우린 그냥 하던 대로 넘어가버리고

 

계속 무리하게 다니면서

 

회복할 시간을 주지 못했어요

 

애초에 의사가 한 말이

 

"금주하시고 일찍 주무시고"

 

"번쩍이는 조명을 피하세요"
정도였거든요

 

겨우 스물 두 살 짜리한테

 

그만한 나이의 남자가 밴드를 한다는 건

 

뭐 술 먹고 약 하고 여자 만나는 건데

 

이 모든 게 이언의 짐작에서
빗나간 거였어요

 

보세요, 간질이라는 게

 

너무나 갑자기 생겼어요

 

게다가 너무 너무 심각했어요

 

온몸이 굳어버리고 요동을 쳐요

 

얼마나 요란한가가 문제가 아니라

 

그냥 심각한 거예요

 

너무 심각했어

 

딸을 안아줄 수도 없고

 

운전도 못 하고

 

기차역에서도 승강장 끝에
서지 않게 조심해야 돼

 

제가 겪은 그의 발작 증세는

 

정말로 너무나도 무서웠어요

 

악마에게 사로잡힌 것처럼요

 

바보 같이 들리시겠지만

 

말 그대로 바닥에서 몸부림쳤어요

 

그것밖에 생각 안 나요

 

최근엔 정신적으로 안정된 환자의 경우

 

85% 정도는 본인의 발작을
진정시킬 수 있어야 합니다

 

약을 엄청나게 많이 복용해야 됐어요

 

게다가 부작용이 말도 못 할 정도예요

 

하루는 갑자기 웃어제끼면서
행복해하다가도

 

그 다음 날에는 울면서 우울해해요

 

약물 치료를 받기 전에는

 

절대로 그런 일이 없었는데

 

예전 같지 않고 더 심해졌어요

 

기분이 들쑥날쑥해졌어요

 

한편으로는 사생활에도
문제가 있긴 했어요

 

아내가 있는데
아닉이란 애인이 생긴 거예요

 

중요한 결정을 내렸어야만 했는데

 

이언한테는 그러기에 너무 너무 힘들었죠

 

아이도 있으니까요

 

무슨 생각으로 그러는지 도저히 몰랐어요

 

무슨 생각을 하는지 정말로 두려웠어요

 

아마도 밴드를 하면서 어디까지
버틸 수 있나 견뎌보려고 했나봐요

 

밴드는 점점 알려지니까
앞으로 더 나아가려 하고

 

때마침 밴드가 아주 유명해지느냐

 

혹은 창조적이고 예술적으로 가느냐의
기로에 서있던 시기였어요

 

그 사실이 아마 이언에게
큰 부담이었을 거예요

 

자기가 우릴 옭아매고 있다고 여겼어요

 

아마 그게 이유들 중에 하나일 거예요

 

우릴 방해하고 싶지 않아서
스스로를 몰아부친 거지요

 

잘나가고 싶어하는 걸 알고있었고

 

밴드 생활도 재밌고 즐거우니까

 

누구도 실망시키려 하지 않았던 게
그놈의 문제였어요

 

1980년 2월에 접어들면서

 

밴드가 갑자기 유명해졌어요

 

그런 기대와 부담 덕분인지
최고의 공연이 나왔어요

 

연주하는 한 마디 두 마디마다
무지막지했어요

 

런던대학교 공연 때 관중 속에 있었는데

 

느낌이 팍 왔죠 "오 이런"

 

"드디어 명곡이 나오는구나"

 

곡은 세 시간 만에 썼다. 한 소절 치는데 이언이 뭔가 떠올렸다. 노래를 들으며 우린 그게 데비(아내)와 아닉인 줄 짐작도 못하고 "정말 끝내준다"고만 생각했다. "사랑이 우리를 갈라놀 거야." 굉장해, 이언이 또 해낸 것이었다. ㅡ피터 훅

 

"Love Will Tear Us Apart"를
라이브로 듣는 순간

 

그냥 그냥 막 쩔어요 "오 맙소사"

 

의심의 여지도 없이 이거는
"진짜 죽여주는 팝송이구나" 하는 거죠

 

차트 1위감인 거예요!

 

그런 느낌이 있어요, 귀에 착 감기잖아요

 

Then love

 

Love will tear us apart again

 

Love

 

Love will tear us apart again

 

Why is the bedroom so cold

 

Turned away on your side?

 

Is my timing that flawed

 

Our respect run so dry?

 

20세기에 나온 가장 위대한 명곡 중의 하나예요

 

그 곡에는 셰익스피어적인 감각이 담겨있어요

 

칼렉시코가 부르던 수재나가 부르던
혹은 빌어먹을 폴 영이 커버를 해도

 

다양하게 재해석될 수 있거든요

 

게다가 계속해서, 끊임없이 의미가 생겨나요

 

정말 범상치 않은 글이에요
가사만 따로 떼어놓고 봐도

 

이 북부 젊은이들이 음과 음을 한데 모아서
곡을 만들어냈고

 

노래는 가사 마디 마디마다 어우러져요

 

사람들은 음악이라는 게
얼마나 강력하고 힘이 있는지 몰라요

 

그냥 보면 사랑 이야기인 것 같잖아요

 

그들 개개인을 떼어놓고 보면
아무것도 아니지만

 

그걸 합쳐놓고 보면

 

하나로 뭉치면 엄청나게 되잖아요

 

그게 바로 조이 디비전이었어요

 

그들에겐 빛과 영혼이 있었어요

 

이언이 자기에겐 영혼이 있다고 했는데
그 말대로예요

 

그이는 정말 대단했어요

 

빛이 그 안에서 타오른 거죠

 

이런 생활이 오래 가진 않는 걸 알았을 테니
어느 면에선 타고 난 셈이죠

 

전화를 걸어오더니 "나 밴드 그만둘래"

 

"네덜란드로 가서 책방을 열래"

 

그래라

 

그러고 몇 분 지나면
"아 토요일에 버펫에서 공연 잡혔지"

 

"아니 아까는"

 

"아냐 아냐, 맘이 바꼈어"

 

"어 그래, 알았어"

 

이언은 자신의 사고방식과 작가들에 대해
얘기하고 싶었을 거예요

 

하지만 대부분은 자신의 감정이나

 

기분이 어땠나를 말하는 정도였죠

 

하루하루 지날 때마다

 

사람들이 바라는 자신의 모습과
단절되는 겁니다

 

그것이 이언 커티스를 두 명의
존재로 갈라버린 거예요

 

한쪽의 이언은 밴드에서 노래하는,
매체에 드러나는 사람이지만

 

실제로 존재하는 이언 커티스는
상처받고 분노하고 방황한 거예요

 

몹시도 쓸쓸하고

 

사람들이 자신을
배려해주지 않는 것처럼 여기게 되죠

 

자기가 실은 어떠한지
설명했다 하더라도요

 

"Closer" 앨범의 끝 부분에는
말로 다 못하는 무언가가 있어요

 

"Unknown Pleasures" 같은 작품이

 

예술가에겐 더할 나위 없지 않나요?

 

버로스나 보위, 발라드,
이기 팝이 된 듯한 그런 기분 말이죠

 

그렇게 된다면 정말 대단하겠죠?

 

저라면 그러고 싶겠어요

 

와 세상에 그렇잖아요

 

그후에 "Closer" 앨범은
그를 더욱 예술가답게 만들었고요

 

자신의 우상과 같은 반열에 든 거예요
"Unknown Pleasures"도 한 몫 했고요

 

그런 예술의 영역에 들어서는 데에 있어서
그게 첫걸음이었으니까요

 

This is the way, step inside

 

지금에 와서 호기심을 갖고 되새겨보면

 

조이 디비전은 매일 한 장씩 뜯어넘기는
기념일 달력 같아요

 

창문을 열면 또 다른 세상이 펼쳐집니다

 

이 세상의 뿌리로부터 다른 세상으로
또 다른 불가사의한 곳으로 뻗어나가요

 

예를 들어 "Atrocity Exhibition'이란 곡은

 

곡 제목이 "잔혹행위 전시"라니
무슨 뜻인가 궁금해지겠죠

 

그럼 "아 J.G. 발라드의 책이구나"하고
알게 됩니다

 

그 순간 전혀 다른 세계가 열리는 거예요

 

이런저런 인용이나 문구를 알게 되죠

 

"Colony"라는 곡은 프란츠 카프카의
저서 "유형지에서"를 따온 거고요
(주: In the Penal Colony)

 

"The Kill"이라는 곡의 가사는

 

도스토예프스키의 작품에서
영향받았음을 알 수 있어요

 

저절로 공부가 되는 것 같았어요

 

주로 도스토예프스키, 니체, 사르트르, 헤세, 발라드의 책을 읽었다. 히틀러를 비판한 "나치의 합성사진"이란 책도 있었다. 이언은 틈만 나면 독서하고 인류의 고통에 대해 고민한다는 것에 나는 충격을 받았다. ㅡ데보라 커티스

 

"Closer" 앨범이 제가 각별하게 원했던
바로 그 소리에 다가갔다고 느꼈어요

 

그리고 런던에 없었기 때문에
그 때 참 즐거웠어요

 

이층집에 지냈는데

 

역시나 이언은 극장처럼 꾸며놓았죠

 

한쪽엔 떠들고 노는 곳으로 만들고

 

다른 한쪽은 지적인 모임을 갖는 곳이고

 

거기서 그들과 같이 지냈어요

 

주변에 여자가 저 뿐이었어요

 

맥클스필드에서 온 누구 같은 촌뜨기에겐
아닉은 너무나 세련됐어요

 

돼지치기나 하면서 뛰어놀던 애가

 

대사관에서 일하는
교양인과 맞닥뜨린 거죠

 

매일 아무거나 막 집어던지고 놀았어요

 

침대에 콘후레이크 뿌리고

 

농담 따먹고 장난치고 한심하게

 

아닉이 쉽게 상처받곤 했어요

 

어느날 밤엔가 판유리 달린 문 너머로

 

우리끼리 또 장난치고 놀았죠

 

걔네들 침대에 있는데
맥주 갖다 뿌리고

 

뭐 그냥 장난이잖아

 

아닉이 열받아서 뛰쳐나왔어

 

우린 우리 방으로 도망가서
문 꽉 붙들어 잠그고

 

아닉이 문을 막 발로 찼어요

 

가운만 걸치고

 

어, 무슨 사내놈 같이

 

지긋지긋했어요

 

그땐 참 지긋지긋했어요

 

이언에게는 데비 문제가 있었고

 

피터 훅은 아이리스와 안 좋았는데
이언이 거기서 아닉하고 지내니까

 

아이리스는 그게 다 글러먹었다고 그랬어요

 

맥클스필드로 돌아간 나는 초조해졌다. 이언이 또 다시 떠난 뒤 너무 외로웠고 유모차를 끌면서 하릴없이 지냈다. ㅡ데보라 커티스

 

스튜디오에서 아주 잘 지냈어요

 

브리태니아 로우였나
샌드위치에 차도 내어주고

 

"진짜 쩐다" 그랬어요

 

버나드랑 나는 종종 마틴을
짜증나게 했어요

 

버나드는 구석에 있고
나는 저쪽에 서서

 

"있잖아 마틴"

 

그러고 버나드한테 "네가 말해"

 

"네가 말해 난 아까 했어"

 

그럼 마틴이 "뭐라고 중얼중얼 씨부려!"

 

"아니 마틴 암것도 아닌데" ('ㅅ')

 

브리타니아 로우에서 작업할 땐데
롭은 선견지명이 있었어요

 

"피터 사빌한테 표지를 맡기자"

 

누가 알아요? 몇 주가 걸릴지
몇 달이 걸릴지

 

"그니까 일찍 가서 섭외해버려"

 

너무 걱정됐어요

 

전 그냥 아무 책이나 집어들고
"이거 어때" 이러고 싶진 않았거든요

 

"너 참 가망없다"는 반응을
보고 싶지 않았어요

 

때마침 아주 열광하던 게 있었어요

 

버나드 피에르 울프라는 사람의
사진 작품이었어요

 

잡지를 펼쳐서 책상에 올려놓고
멀찍이 떨어져서 보여주는데

 

다들 동시에 손짓하면서

 

"바로 이거야, 이거 표지로 할래"

 

그 작품이 "Closer"에 쓰이게 됐어요

 

되게 흥미로웠어요
'가까이' 혹은 '닫다'

 

이 앨범이 이언의
마지막 작품이 될 줄은 몰랐어요

 

"Unknown Pleasures"보다 나았고

 

곡도 그렇고 모든 게 좋아졌으니까

 

이언도 그때는 늘 웃고 다녔어요

 

아프고 그럴 때에나 좀 슬프고 그랬지

 

그래도 대부분은 정말 잘 지냈어요

 

어느 저녁에 얘기를 나눴는데

 

이언이 저한테 대뜸
이번 앨범은 기분이 되게 이상했다

 

모든 가사는 가사일 뿐인데

 

지나간 것에 얽매여서
노래로 완성하는데 고생했다

 

다들 고생해서 한 거다

 

그치만 쉽게 쉽게 되어버린 거다

 

그러면서 그와 동시에

 

자기는 소용돌이 안에 갇힌 듯한
끔찍한 공포를 느꼈다고

 

계속 그 물살에 담궈진 것 같았다고

 

이언은 혼자 녹음하곤 했어요

 

나머진 아마 따로 연주했을 거예요

 

제가 상상했던 바로는 이언은
너무 지쳐서 조용해져버린 것 같아요

 

그리고 노래를 할 때면
이언은 뒤돌아서서

 

머리에 손을 올리거나 눈을 가리고

 

그리곤 남들한테 등 돌린 채
그렇게 혼자 있는 거예요

 

CD 속에 모든 가사가
너무나 우울하고 슬퍼요

 

근데 놀랍게도 아무도 신경쓰지 않았어요

 

우린 가사에 대해 전혀 대화하지 않았어요

 

그의 말들에 귀기울이지 않았죠

 

몇 년이 지나고 나서
이언이 쓴 글들을 봤어요

 

데비가 출판한 걸 보고는
너무 놀랐어요

 

"세상에 이런 게 네가 노래해온 거라니"

 

다른 이들에게는 문학 작품 같을 거예요

 

아닉이 얼마나 걱정되고 무서워하는지
나한테 얘길 했어요

 

그러면 난 그냥
"에이 아니야, 그건 예술이야"

 

"그냥 앨범 가사잖아"

 

"당연히 놀랍지 무서워할 거 없어"

 

그러면 아닉이 "토니 모르겠어요?"

 

이언이 "내 탓이야" 그러면
그건 진심으로 그러는 거라고

 

난 또 "아냐 아냐 아니라니깐"

 

"그건 그냥 예술이라니까"

 

얼마나 바보 같았는지 아시겠어요?

 

이언이 식칼로 자해했을 때
그냥 홧김에 그랬다고 했어요

 

처음 약물과용이었을 때는
금방 고칠 거라고 생각했죠

 

그건 말이죠 순전히...

 

걔를 말리고 다독여주질 못했다는 게
아직도 믿어지지 않아요

 

아마도 병원에 갈 날짜를 잡으려는데

 

이미 공연이 잡혀있는 거예요

 

공연을 취소할 생각도 못 해본 거지
[80년 4월 7일 처방약 과용으로 자살 미수]

 

토니가 이언을 공연장에 데려왔는데
발작할 것 같진 않아보였어요
[다음날 더비홀 공연장]

 

전화가 왔는데 버나드였어요

 

"저기 이언이 아픈데 저녁에 공연이 있어"

 

옆에 같이 서서 좀 도와줄 수 있겠냐고

 

알란이 몇 곡 불러주고
이언도 쉬어가면서 몇 곡 부르고

 

하지만 관객들은 별로 안 좋아하죠

 

무대 위에 커다란 빅토리아풍
유리 샹들리에가 있었는데

 

누군가 병인지 유리잔인지를 던져서
샹들리에에 맞은 거예요

 

병들이 날아다니고
장비도 엉망이 되고

 

후키 그놈이 쌈질을 좀 하니까

 

트위니 걔는 낄낄대면서
"덤벼! 치고박고 함 뜨자"

 

다들 무대 밑에 내려가서
관중들이랑 싸우려고 그러고

 

헌데 갑자기 낭패스러웠던 게

 

난리도 아니고 그러니까
이언한테도 좋질 않았던 거예요

 

이언은 그 와중에
"맞아 다 내 잘못이야" 이러고

 

눈물을 펑펑 흘리는 거예요

 

그런 애였어요 자기 탓으로만 돌리고

 

이언이 무대 한쪽에 서있는데

 

저들끼리 연주하는 걸 보더니

 

저한테 문득 애들이 자기를
깔보는 것 같다고

 

나 없이도 다들 잘 하니까

 

나 없이도 계속 잘 해나갈 거라는 거예요

 

그런 으시시한 말을

 

베리 공연이 다가오니까
토니한테 말했죠

 

당신이 집에 데려와서 며칠 재워주자

 

우린 시골에 사니까

 

그래서 공연 끝나고 이언이
우리 집에 왔어요

 

우린 거실에 앉아서
담배 피우고 음악도 듣고

 

그게 다였어요

 

우리 집에도 일주일 정도 자고 갔어요

 

이언이 데비랑 헤어졌거나
아니면 이언이 버림받은 것 같았어요

 

잠잘 곳이 필요했으니까

 

일주일인가 저랑 같이 지냈어요

 

당시에 제가 불면증이 심해서
이언한테 좀 안 좋았을 거예요

 

새벽 5시까지 잠을 못 자고 그랬거든요

 

하루는 연습 하고 돌아오면서

 

묘지 근처에 있는 지름길로 왔어요

 

그때 이언한테 "넌 행운아다"

 

"네가 앞으로도 잘 해나가면"

 

"묘비에 떡하니 이름도 새기잖아"

 

그러니까 이언이 "그래 맞아"

 

 

그냥 지나가는 반응이었어요

 

그때...

 

이미 마음을 정했었나봐요

 

최면 요법에 대한 책을 읽었는데

 

지금의 문제에 힘든 사람이

 

최면으로 과거로 돌아감으로써
지금 일을 묻어둘 수 있대요

 

어린 시절에 힘들었던 것도 가능하고

 

믿거나 말거나
전생을 알 수도 있다고도 하고

 

이언이 그걸 듣고 관심있어하면서
"재밌겠다, 나한테 해줘봐"

 

우리 그러면 녹음하면서 해볼까 했어요

 

시간을 되돌려보자

 

네가 태어나기 전으로

 

뭐가 보이니?

 

책 읽어

 

뭐 읽어?

 

법률책

 

너는 몇 살이야?

 

스물 여덟

 

법률책을 왜 읽어?

 

그냥 며칠째 읽던 거

 

띄엄띄엄 읽다가
끄적이기도 하고

 

그게 네 직업이니?

 

아니

 

그냥 밤에 하는 일

 

이제 깨어날 거야 완전히

 

이제 네가 누군지 알아?
/ 응

 

이름이 뭐야?

 

이언

 

누가 보아도 이언은
심각할 정도로 불안정했어요

 

여러가지 문제가 기반이 된 거죠

 

하지만 그가 바라던 것들의
중간 지점에 걸쳐진 거였어요

 

만체스터를 떠나 세계를 돌며

 

미국에도 갈 수도 있었어요

 

그의 우상도 몇몇 있었으니까

 

하필이면 왜 그 전날 밤에
그러고 싶었겠어요?

 

털사까지 고작 24시간 걸리는데

 

24시간만 지나면
미국으로 가는 비행기에 타는데

 

그 월요일 날에 미국에 갔을 텐데

 

이언은 부모님 댁에 가있었어요

 

목요일에 전화로 얘기해줬어요

 

이언이 그 다음날인가 토요일인가

 

대뜸 "나 내일은 못 올라가"

 

"미국 가기 전에 데비 만나려고"

 

그래서 왠지 그렇더라고요

 

울고불고 하거나 싸우겠다 싶어서

 

이언은 이혼을 취하하자고 했지만
나는 아침이 되면 생각이 바뀔 거라며
우겼다 ㅡ데보라 커티스

 

진심이냐고 물어봤어요

 

그냥 우리한테 와서
한 잔 하고 떠들고 그러자 하니까

 

"아니 데비한테 갈래" 그러더라고요

 

전 벨기에에서 며칠 있다가
영국에 돌아왔어요

 

마지막으로 서로 얘기했던 게
토요일 저녁인가 그랬어요

 

아주 잠깐 얘기한 건데
제대로 들리지도 않았어요

 

사람들 많은 무대 뒤에 있었는데

 

이언이 그랬어요 미국에 가기 전에
꼭 만나서 같이 있자고

 

왜냐면 두어 달 가량 못 보니까요

 

그래서 당연히 그 다음날에
집에 가서 전화 주겠다고 했어요

 

전화하면서 음악 듣고
이제 영화 보려 한다고

 

그리고 혼자 있다고 했어요

 

제가 제일 먼저 소식을 들었어요

 

앉아있었는데 기분이 정말 이상했어요

 

일요일에 저랑 아이리스랑
점심을 막 먹으려던 참인데 전화가 와서

 

말 그대로

 

수화기 너머로
"경찰입니다만 어쩌고 저쩌고 해서"

 

"롭 그레튼씨와 연락하고 싶습니다"

 

그사람 집에 있을 거예요

 

"전화해봤는데 안 받으십니다"

 

왜 그러는데요? 하니까

 

"어 저기, 저희가"

 

"이런 말씀 드려 죄송합니다만
이언 커티스씨가 자살했습니다"

 

"어, 네 알겠습니다" 그랬어요

 

"네 그러면 롭 그레튼씨에게
연락해 달라고 전해주시겠습니까?"

 

"네 알겠습니다"

 

그러고 전화를 끊고 오니까
식사가 차려졌어요

 

아이리스가 무슨 전화였냐고 묻길래

 

"이언이 자살했대"

 

그건 정말 그건 충격이었어요

 

진짜 이상하고 무섭고

 

이언이 그 전에 자살하려고 했을 때

 

약을 과다복용했어요
너무 깜짝 놀랐었어요

 

실은 이언이 자살했다고
롭이 말해주는 걸 듣고

 

뭐야 또 그랬냐고 했어요

 

말도 안 돼, 또 그랬단 말야

 

하니까 롭이 아니라고
이언이 죽은 거라고

 

내가 설마 하니까

 

아니라고, 죽은 거 맞다고
죽어버렸다고

 

그 뒤로 뭐가 어땠는지 가물가물해요 정말로

 

그냥 술집에 처박혀서
다들 모여서 멍하니 있었어요

 

나, 트위니, 테리, 바니
다 같이 아무데나 앉아서

 

술집 아무데나 가서 그냥

 

솔직히 납득할 수가 없었어요

 

뭐라 말해야 될지

 

반쯤 슬프면서도 반은 화나고

 

정말

 

걔한테 화가 났어요

 

정말로, 그런 바보짓을 했다니

 

아무것도 못한 내 자신에게도 화가 나고

 

영국에 도착했는데

 

이언이 전화를 안 해주길래
아 무슨 문제가 있나보다

 

부모님 댁에 전화했어야 했는데
거기 있었으니까

 

거기 있는다고 했으니까

 

그래서 전화했는데
아버님 하시는 말씀이 "이언이 죽었다"

 

그러시곤 전화를 끊으셨어요
그게 다였어요

 

퇴근하고 집에 왔는데 신문을 보니까

 

가수가 투어 전날 자살했다고
써있는 거예요

 

말도 안 돼

 

그러곤 화가 났어요 "병신아 왜 그랬냐"

 

"나쁜 놈, 우리랑 함께 했어야지"

 

우린 조문하러 가진 않았어요

 

어쨌던 우릴 반겨줄 것 같진 않았어요

 

근데 살면서 가장 후회되는 건
그놈이 죽었는데 보러 가지 않은 거예요

 

그게 정말, 진심으로 후회되요

 

우린 너무 어렸고 뭐가 뭔지 몰라서

 

아무도 가자고 안 했어요

 

누가 조문하러 가자고 하면

 

우린 "집어쳐 인마, 죽은 사람 시체를
내가 왜 보러 가냐" 그랬겠지

 

젠장 어쩌겠어요 스물 둘이었는데
"술이나 마시러 가야겠다"

 

하지만 이제야 와서 얼굴도 못 보고
작별한다는 게 너무 후회스러워요

 

버나드하고 저만 안 갔어요

 

다들 조문하고 왔어요

 

내가 아닉을 챙겨줘야 했지

 

그래서 장례식은 안 갔어요

 

아닉을 브뤼셀로 돌려보내야 했고

 

그래서 장례식 구경도 못 했어요

 

그러고 한 일주일간 아닉을 돌보는데

 

걘 아마 기억도 잘 안 날 거야

 

근데 하루종일 쉬지도 않고
그 앨범들만 듣는 거예요

 

시골집에 처박혀서
내내 그러고 보냈어요

 

에이구

 

전 장례식엔 안 가고 식후에
팩토리 음반사로 갔어요

 

섹스 피스톨스의
"The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle"이 나와요

 

내내 꼼짝도 할 수 없었어요

 

다들 방안에 모여있는데

 

이 어처구니 없고
미련한 상황이 닥치니까

 

제대로 저지른 거죠 뻔뻔하게

 

화려하게 저질러버렸어

 

근데 남은 우리는
감정에 맞서 싸우지도 않고

 

빌어먹을 서로 눈치만 보는 거예요

 

괜히 침착하려는 척이나 하려고

 

지들 나름대로

 

그래봤자 결국엔 무너지는 건데

 

서로 제대로 말도 안 했어요

 

토니가 저한테 이언이 죽었다고
연락해온 그 날은

 

문득 표지에 대한 생각이 나서
대화하던 중이었어요

 

지적하고 넘어가야겠다 싶었거든요

 

토니가 매우 걱정했던 게

 

뭔가 선정적이고 과장된 의도가
사진 속에 내재된 것 같다고

 

그래서 "토니, 앨범 표지에
무덤 사진이 있어요" 하니까

 

토니가 "아, 우라질" 이러더라고요

 

조이 디비전은 끝났으니까

 

모든 게 충격적으로 끝나버렸다면서

 

이야기를 거기서 마무리하려는
경향이 있어요

 

중요한 것은
거기서 끝나버리는 게 아니에요

 

왜 계속 하기로 했느냐?

 

우린 그냥 계속 나아갔어요

 

"어쩌지? 그만둘까 계속 할까"
이런 건 고민하지도 않았어요

 

장례식장을 가고
팔라타인 가에 조문도 가고

 

그러고 그저 그냥

 

"월요일? 그래 월요일에 보자"

 

그냥 그랬어요 그렇게

 

I did everything

 

Everything that I wanted to

 

I let them use you

 

For their own ends

 

To the center of the city in the night

 

Looking for you

 

To the center of the city in the night

 

Waiting for you

 

조이 디비전의 미덕은
우리 넷이서 해냈다는 거예요

 

우리가 무얼 하는지
어째서 이걸 하는지 몰랐지만

 

어쩔 수 없이 서로 끌렸던 거야

 

다른 녀석들한테도 물어보세요
우린 몰랐어요

 

아마 이언은 알았을지도

 

우린 평생 깨닫지 못하겠지만

 

그저 순수한 인연이었어요, 넷이서

 

정말 쉬웠어요, 노래를 만들고

 

연주를 잘 하고

 

그런 건 쉬웠어요

 

그 친구가 죽고 그게 어려워진 거지

 

이언이 죽고 남은 세 명은
팀을 뉴 오더로 개명했다

 

이후 8~90년대 그룹 중 가장 성공하고
영향력 있는 밴드가 되었으며

 

2천만 장 이상의 음반 판매량을 기록했다

 

지난 18년 동안
조이 디비전의 곡은 거의 하지 않았다

 

조이 디비전이 일구어낸 혁명은
그 안에서 꽃을 피웠죠

 

사람들에게 영향을 끼치고, 녹아들게 하고
댄스와 록을 구분짓지 않음으로써

 

이 현대적인 도시에 결실을 맺었습니다

 

그리하여 한때 근대적이었던 도시는
다시금 현대적인 도시로 거듭납니다

 

이 도시의 울림과
도시가 우리에게 남긴 것

 

이 모든 것들이 조이 디비전의 유산입니다

 

그들이 대처한 것이 진실이라는 것을

 

유행의 흥망성쇠를 지속시켜온

 

그 진실성이야말로
우리가 믿어야 할 것입니다

 

돈이나 명예, 탈산업화된 것을
추구하는 것이 아니라

 

대중 문화를 유지하는데 있어
궁극적으로 중요한 것입니다

 

진정한 멋을 재발견한다는 것은

 

그것을 잘 활용한다면
조이 디비전처럼 해낼 수 있습니다

 

좋은 활용은 멋지게 되는
방법을 잘 설명해주니까요

 

"Unknown Pleasures"와 "Closer"
오로지 단 두 작품입니다

 

그것 뿐이죠

 

그밖에 다른 건 모두 상품이에요

 

추억의 기념품이죠

 

우리는 상표가 넘치는
시대에 살고 있습니다

 

허나 조이 디비전은
그런 것들을 초월합니다

 

그들이 무얼 해냈는지 믿는다면요

 

조이 디비전이나 팩토리 음반사
그리고 이언의 이야기는

 

팝계에서 가장 진실된 이야기입니다

 

상업적 논리에 지배된 팝 문화에서
희귀해진 실화예요

 

네 근사한 이야기죠

 

그들과 함께 도시가 재건되는 이야기

 

비극적인 자살로 교훈을 주는 이야기

 

문화적, 학문적으로
지적이고 심미적인 이야기

 

그 중심은 오직 이곳에 있습니다

 

그들은 훌륭한 곡들을 만들었고
명곡은 영원하니까요

 

Walk in silence

 

Don't walk away in silence

 

See the danger

 

Always danger

 

Endless talking

 

Life rebuilding

 

Don't walk away

 

Walk in silence

 

Don't turn away in silence

 

Your confusion

 

My illusion

 

Worn like a mask of self-hate

 

Confronts and then dies

 

Don't walk away

 

People like you find it easy

 

Naked to see

 

Walking on air

 

Hunting by the rivers

 

Through the streets

 

Every corner

 

Abandoned too soon

 

Set down with due care

 

Don't walk away in silence

 

Don't walk away

 

**부족한 자막 보아주셔서 감사합니다**
번역: 미야코 suedebar@hanmail.net

  조이 디비전 다큐멘터리(Joy Division, 2006)

O God, grant us a vision of our city,

 

fair she might be.

 

A city of justice,

 

where none shall prey on others.

 

A city of plenty,

 

where vice and poverty shall cease to fester.

 

A city of brotherhood

 

where all success shall
be founded on service,

 

and honor shall be given to a nobleman alone.

 

A city of peace

 

where order shall not rest on force,

 

but on the love of all for the city,

 

the great mother of the
common light and weal.

 

I don't see this
as the story of a pop group.

 

I see this as a story of a city

 

that once upon a time
was shiny and bold and revolutionary,

 

and then suddenly, 30-odd years later,

 

is shiny and revolutionary all over again.

 

And at the heart of this transformation,

 

is a bunch of groups,
and one group in particular.

 

Go further back in time,

 

further back through time,

 

to another set of memories.

 

Time, you see?

 

5, 4, 3, 2, 1

 

I can remember very precisely
what Manchester was like in the mid-'70s.

 

It felt like a piece of history
that had been spat out.

 

This had been the historic center
of the modern world.

 

We invented the industrial
revolution in this town.

 

And yet, even though we did,
we also invented these conditions.

 

It was really grimy and dirty...

 

a dirty old town.

 

You were always looking for beauty

 

because it was such an ugly place...

 

whether, again, on the subconscious level.

 

I mean, I don't think I saw a tree
until I was about 9.

 

Here are your playgrounds,

 

your porches and sun lounges

 

and whatever else you can use them for.

 

I just remember factories and...

 

nothing that was pretty, nothing.

 

I like that!

 

I remember the first
time I was in Manchester,

 

seeing all these hou...
end-to-end terrace houses.

 

And then the next time you went,
it was just a pile of rubble.

 

Then the next time you went,

 

there was sort of, like,
all this building work.

 

And then, by the time you were in your teens,

 

there was this big concrete fortress...

 

quite futuristic at the time.

 

Then, of course, concrete cancer set in,

 

and it looks horrible.

 

I was born in 1956.

 

I lived in my grandparents' house,

 

and they used to talk
about the war all the time.

 

My grandparents' history had been bombed.

 

The house had gone.

 

I remember we had a room there,

 

and it was full of, like,
gas masks, and...

 

tin helmets, British flags,
and, you know, old radio sets,

 

paraphernalia for the war.

 

I'm at Bernadine Salford Grammar School.

 

Um, when we're 11,

 

you get less for murder, don't you?

 

I guess, living in Salford,

 

you're a bit of a nobody, really.

 

You know, you didn't have much chance
of progressing in the world, really.

 

You were thought of as factory fodder.

 

So, um, we just sort of
wasted our time together.

 

We were really, really
normal, daft beer boys,

 

I suppose you'd have to say.

 

I had some myriad instructions
while I was working,

 

and basically,
it was reading the evening news.

 

When I was going through the
adverts in the classified,

 

just scanning for anything of interest,

 

and the Sex Pistols 50p,
Lesser Free Trade Hall,

 

I thought,
"That looks interesting."

 

I thought it was shit.
It was like a car crash.

 

It was like, "Oh, my God.",
I've never seen anything like it in my life.

 

I mean, I'd been to see most groups...

 

you know, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin.

 

I'd never seen anything as chaotic
or as exciting

 

and as... rebellious.

 

It was how I felt.

 

You know, you just want to trash everything.

 

It was a right racket, you know,
and you thought...

 

you just thought,
"Fucking hell, I could do that. "

 

You know, I could just about do that.

 

We... We'd formed a band then,
that night, there and then.

 

We formed a group.

 

It's easy to form a group.

 

It's all the rest that's difficult.

 

We went to see the second Sex Pistols gig,

 

when the Buzzcocks supported them.

 

And, um, we were in it then.

 

We had a meeting with them on Friday evening
because they said,

 

"But we'd like to start a band,
but we need some help. "

 

And because, as I say,
punk being an inclusive thing,

 

and we needed all the...

 

all the best similar minded people
that we could have,

 

you know, to make it, uh, a growing concern.

 

We advertised for a drummer and singer.

 

One guy called and he didn't sound mad.

 

I said, "What's your name?"
He went, "Ian. "

 

I said, "Ian who?"
"Ian Curtis"

 

I said, "Oh. "

 

Because there was two
guys called The Two lans.

 

They advertised for a singer,
and Ian answered it.

 

We met in the pub in Sale.

 

Looking at him, you think,
Christ, you know.

 

Quite frightening-looking guy:
Leather pants,

 

combat jacket with "Hate" on the back,

 

getting daggers from the locals,

 

like,
"What the hell is this? What's he?"

 

Pretty dangerous thing
to do in 1976 Manchester.

 

I said, "Oh, The Two lans, right?

 

We met you at the Clash gig the other day. "
Or whatever, you know...

 

And I was going, you know,
like, punk ideals, yeah:

 

Being married, boring.

 

He went,
"Oh, I'm married. "

 

Yeah, he shows me his wedding ring.

 

We thought...
"You're such a nice guy. "

 

I thought,
"Oh, yeah, it doesn't matter. "

 

He's like,
"Yeah, yeah, that's me, that's me. "

 

I said,
"All right, yeah, yeah.

 

Yeah, all right, you've got the job. "

 

And that was it, over the phone.

 

The first set of material we wrote
was just... was aping punk, really.

 

Completely aping it and
doing it really badly.

 

Don't know what I'm doing,
don't know where I'm going

 

Leading me to ruin,
I should have traded you in

 

Yeah, you think you're something,

 

But you're no good for me

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

 

Fuck off, fuck off

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

 

Bollocks, bollocks

 

You know, these really dreadful...

 

dreadful, dreadful songs.

 

No good

 

Na na na na na na na na, no good

 

I get on the phone.

 

I expected some sort of oafish punk type...

 

And it was very mild-mannered,
very chatty Ian.

 

The first gig that I had with them
was the last night at the Electric Circus.

 

The Electric Circus is one
of the places that we...

 

hired from bemused hippies on their quiet night
to put on, uh, emerging punk rock.

 

"Can you explain to me
why you come to the Electric Circus?"

 

"Because it's the best place
where they put punk rock bands on."

 

"Because it's got a great atmosphere."

 

"Looks like he just come out of Risley
for the day, don't it?"

 

"He won't go see it."

 

"Bottles from plastic pumps."

 

"I want you to do something for me."

 

"Because look at me now,
I'm nothing."

 

"That's what punk is..."

 

"You can start going and
really enjoy yourself,

 

you know, jump about a bit, let yourself go.
Why not?"

 

It became a punk club, and... and...

 

and absolutely a very important part
of the whole landscape.

 

And then suddenly,
we were saying good-bye to it

 

in an emotional weekend do,

 

that was recorded rather pitifully
by Virgin Records.

 

And, yeah,
The Warsaw, and the, um,

 

"Remember Rudolph Hess" thing,
and all that kind of nonsense.

 

At the time when any of that happened,

 

those of us within it had not
a moment's doubt

 

that it was anything dicey.

 

You know, it just...
you just sort of trusted,

 

somehow, the instincts of locals
that it was not dicey.

 

Can't buy everything, that's true

 

Only one thing wrong with that

 

What it don't buy I don't use

 

Some guy at work gave me a couple of books.

 

One was called House of Dolls,

 

and I knew it was about the Nazis,
but I didn't read it.

 

And I just flipped through the pages.

 

It was the brothel that soldiers went to.

 

And I thought,
"Well, it's pretty bad taste,

 

but it's quite punk. "

 

And everyone I told the name to went,
"That's a great name. "

 

It sounds too neat and tidy,
but it almost seems to be

 

that it all came when they had the name.

 

It was like Roxy Music or Velvet Underground.

 

You know, you knew instantly
from the moment it happened,

 

it was one of those names.

 

At that stage,

 

when we made our first record,
An Ideal for Living,

 

we just were making this music,

 

and we wanted people to hear it.

 

And it was very much punk ethos
of do-it-yourself, independence.

 

Forget big labels,

 

just small, you know, cottage industries.

 

I'd actually forgotten
that Ian borrowed the money.

 

God, if I did it now,
my wife would kill me.

 

So how he got away with it then
is unbelievable, you know.

 

So we banged it down, heard it in the studio.

 

We thought it sounded great.

 

A couple of weeks later, we got the vinyl.

 

You know, Ideal For Living,

 

I draw on the sleeve.

 

"All right, I know what we'll do.

 

We'll take it to Pip's,
a local club that we go. "

 

Went to the deejay...
"Hey, mate, play our record.

 

It's us, you know, us. "

 

This guy's like,
"No, fuck off. "

 

"No, no, come on, come on.

 

It's us.
We've been coming in for years, bloke. "

 

So those people on the dance floor...

 

he puts it on, and they listen to it.

 

And the pressing was so bad,

 

it was, like, completely muffled...

 

so quiet, you wouldn't believe it.

 

And it just cleared the dance floor.

 

Everyone...
Everyone just walks off,

 

and he took it off halfway through.

 

We were like,
"Oh, shit. What have we done?"

 

We didn't play for six months.

 

We couldn't get a gig.

 

Nobody would give us a gig as Joy Division.

 

It was really difficult.

 

I think they thought we were yobs,
which we were.

 

He spurred us on
to rehearse and rehearse and rehearse,

 

and write and write and write,
and get really, really tight,

 

so that when we did get a gig
we would show the bastards.

 

We used to rehearse twice a week.

 

And in those three and two hours,
we'd invariably get a song.

 

One.

 

We had an enormous
factory floor to ourselves.

 

In the winter,
we used to just brush all the rubbish

 

to one end of the room
and set fire to it to just keep warm.

 

We were all on our own island,
what we're doing,

 

and we just really made sure

 

that what we were doing sounded great.

 

So I didn't pay attention
to what the others were doing.

 

When I played low,
I couldn't hear anything.

 

I saw when I played high,
I could pick it out,

 

because of the row,
because Barney's amp was really loud.

 

Then Ian just latched onto you playing high,

 

and he'd say,
"That sounds good when you play high. "

 

Barney plays guitar.

 

"We should work on that.
That sounds really distinctive."

 

Just a happy accident like that
gave us our sound, you know.

 

Ian always had a box of words,

 

and we just pulled some words out
and started singing them,

 

so we already had them, really,

 

because he would be at home
writing every night anyway.

 

They had, like,
a "Battle of the Bands" night

 

for young bands that were just starting out.

 

I remember Paul Morley being there in a band.

 

Kevin Cummins was in his band,

 

I think Richard Boon was in it.

 

It was like a joke band,
you know, having a laugh.

 

Everybody, including Joy Division,
turned out to be...

 

to be, you know, to win.

 

You know, like,
some weird prototype X Factor.

 

This is when I first saw the other side
of Ian.

 

Ian was a really lovely,

 

really nice, polite, intelligent guy.

 

If he didn't get what he wanted
through being like that,

 

he would explode into this kind of frenzied...

 

Grr!...

 

You know, frenzied thing.

 

Because that's the only way
he could get what he wanted.

 

I remember him kicking the door down
to their dressing room,

 

and going to Paul Morley and Kevin Cummins,

 

them going,
"You're not fucking going on.

 

You're not fucking going on.
We'll kill you.

 

If you go on, we'll bowl you.
We're going on. "

 

Ian had previously gone up earlier in the night
to Tony Wilson to complain.

 

Called him a cunt, you know.
He says, "Cunt you. "

 

Tony was like,
"Why, why, why, darling?

 

What have I done, darling?"

 

He'd be like,
"Well, you won't put us on your... "

 

Tony had a TV program then.

 

I didn't answer him,

 

but I know I remember thinking, you know,

 

"You're next on the list, you fucking idiot. "

 

I spend a lot of my days working out

 

how I could possibly explain to people
how bizarre this is,

 

that this man would
suddenly come to be involved.

 

Tony Wilson reports.

 

The Southwark, Lambeth,
and Lewisham Area Health Authority

 

is the largest single health authority
in the country.

 

Welcome to the circus...

 

Whew!

 

It was like seeing an alien
with tentacles and eight eyes,

 

really, when I first met Tony Wilson.

 

He was just like from another planet.

 

He was a show-biz one, you know.
He was a star.

 

Tony had So it Goes,
one of the only platforms

 

that championed punk and the New Wave.

 

And that was wonderful.

 

And strangely,
it championed within the establishment.

 

I mean, there's nothing more establishment,

 

particularly to young
people, than television.

 

Every other band that night at Rafters was on stage
because they wanted to be on stage.

 

They wanted to be rock stars.

 

They wanted to be in the music business.

 

But this lot were on stage
because they had no fucking choice.

 

The next day,
I remember being in a phone booth

 

in Spring Gardens in Manchester,

 

just outside the Post Office there.

 

There was a knock on the booth.
I opened the door. "Yeah?"

 

This guy stood there.
It was Rob Gretton.

 

I knew Rob Gretton because he was one
of the other deejays at Rafters.

 

I just have this picture in my mind,

 

I can still see of him
ranting at me ecstatically

 

about how wonderful he thought they were

 

and weren't they the best band
you'd ever seen in your life?

 

And he was going to manage them,

 

and he was going to take them

 

to all sorts of places you wouldn't believe.

 

One of the first things
that Rob Gretton did when he came along,

 

was "Stop the fucking
record that you've done."

 

He says,
"Get rid of that fucking cover.

 

Everyone thinks you're
nuts just because of it.

 

Get rid of that fucking cover.
Whose idea was that?"

 

And he tossed it, you know.

 

"So we're going to do a new cover,

 

and we're going to press it
as a 12-inch so it sounds loud."

 

So he did it, and we played it,

 

and then it was like,

 

"Wow, he was right, yeah,
it sounds fantastic."

 

No, no love lost

 

When he was deejaying,
he was playing soul music, I think.

 

But his ideology was really punk.

 

We'd met a guy called Richard Searling
from RCA Records.

 

Ian was a regular visitor to the RCA offices.

 

The main reason for that
was he adored Iggy Pop.

 

And they wanted a punk band.

 

A punk band.

 

I didn't know anybody other than...

 

"Oh, Ian's got a band."

 

He wanted us to do a cover version

 

of this Northern Soul record called
"Keep On Keepin' On",

 

which, when he played it,

 

we were quite impressed with it actually.

 

There is a stomping guitar riff in it.

 

Pick out your moment

 

You'll be interested, I'll bet, yeah

 

The engineer must have been pretty good.

 

I can always remember him

 

trying to get Ian to sound like...
James Brown.

 

Telling him to sing like James Brown.

 

He just got a bottle of whiskey,

 

and telling him to belt
it out like James Brown,

 

Really, he just kind of got very fractious
and started yelping like a dog.

 

And then decided we'd best take him home.

 

Punk enabled you to say,
"Fuck you. "

 

But somehow, it couldn't go any further.

 

It was just a single, venomous,

 

one-syllable, two-syllable phrase of anger

 

which was necessary to
re-ignite rock-'n'- roll.

 

But sooner or later,

 

someone was going to want to say more
than "Fuck you. "

 

Someone was going to want to say
"I'm fucked."

 

And it was Joy Division
who were the first band to do that,

 

to use the energy and simplicity of punk

 

to express more complex emotions.

 

"Seeing as how this is the program

 

which previously brought to you
first television appearances

 

from everything from The
Beatles to the Buzzcocks,

 

we do like to keep our hand in
and keep you informed

 

of the most interesting
new sounds in the Northwest.

 

This, Joy Division,

 

is the most interesting new sound
we've come across in the last six months.

 

They're a Manchester band,

 

with the exception of the guitarist,

 

who comes from Salford...
very important difference.

 

They're called Joy Division.

 

This number is "Shadowplay".

 

To the center of the city
where all roads meet

 

Waiting for you

 

To the depths of the ocean
where all hopes sank

 

Searching for you

 

Moving through the silence without motion

 

Waiting for you

 

In a room with no window in the corner

 

I found truth

 

One time we started doing the Factory nights,

 

there was always this...

 

this kind of void that was the band,

 

then there was nothing,

 

and then there were some
people sort of lurking.

 

And the second time, this sort of void

 

was kind of getting itself
sort of narrower and narrower,

 

so that eventually there was even
the odd person dancing.

 

Well, hey, we've got an audience now.

 

I sort of remember it
was absolutely astounding.

 

It was unbelievably good,

 

and I felt so in awe of somebody I knew.

 

Ian's just that, and he starts like that.

 

It just seemed the very kind of,
like, Caesar.

 

And it was other-worldly.

 

And I'm thinking, "This is Ian,
who can buy flowers for his wife",

 

and he's up on stage, and it's...

 

totally inspirational and hypnotic.

 

And I'm... I'm...

 

I'm sold to it.

 

I've bought it, totally.

 

To the center of the city
where all roads meet

 

Waiting for you

 

To the depths of the ocean
where all hopes sank

 

Searching for you

 

I was moving through the silence
without motion

 

Waiting for you

 

In a room with no window in the corner

 

I found truth

 

You would just be drawn into it.

 

It functioned like those shaman things do.

 

You're just kind of pulled into the moment.

 

They're a very interesting band about time

 

because they're very informed by the past.

 

But also, you're always propelled
into just a moment of present with them.

 

Time sort of stops.

 

In the shadowplay,
acting out your own death

 

Knowing no more

 

They were just absolutely stunning.

 

I couldn't believe it.

 

I've gotten real goose bumps now,
because I can remember it.

 

But not in me head, in me stomach.

 

This just got me there,
you know, just, whoa.

 

But I could only stare in disbelief

 

As the crowds all left

 

We were only originally going to have two songs,
and then do a short film

 

about what was happening
within Manchester with Anderton.

 

He was a very right wing
and very vociferous chief constable.

 

He believed he spoke
directly to God every night.

 

He believed that God sent him messages,

 

and it felt really genuinely threatening.

 

It felt there was a bad moon rising.

 

You know, it felt
like there was bad shit on the way.

 

Well, there was, actually.
The sewers were up at the time.

 

What a great metaphor
for whatever the fuck was going on.

 

And then yet, the looming Factory thing
creating this consumerist fascist society.

 

And then we cut to, if you like,

 

the underground feel of the rehearsal rooms,

 

where it's almost like a resistance group.

 

That was the idea to get across,

 

that these... this was a resistance
through our own culture.

 

When Tony sat with Alan and I
for Christmas '78 and said...

 

"I think we might...

 

we could do a record from the club

 

for the bands that haven't
got contracts yet."

 

This was just like terribly,
terribly exciting.

 

Suddenly we had a producer,
and his name was Martin Hannett.

 

Why?

 

Right.

 

So what's the first thing you do for them?

 

Idea for Factory Sample?

 

I feel it closing in

 

The fear of whom I call

 

Every time I call

 

I feel it closing in

 

Day in, day out, day in, day out

 

Day in, day out, day in, day out, oh

 

The lyrics of "Digital" are actually digital.

 

There's on, off, day in, day out,
day in, day out,

 

And they're switching.

 

It's also somehow weirdly related
to Curtis' persona itself,

 

which is, we know now, is bipolar.

 

On the one hand we have the lad

 

going down to the pub with his mates,
fooling around.

 

On the other hand,

 

we have the aesthete, who's reading poetry

 

and imbibing himself
with all kinds of highfalutin ideas

 

that he's going to be
a romantic pop star hero.

 

Ian just looks straight into the camera
while he's smoking.

 

It's the eyes,
that slight translucency of his eyes,

 

looking into the camera
that sends a chill through people.

 

16... 17...

 

18...

 

20 and 21... we're getting there.

 

One was in silhouette, and there was one...

 

when they came slightly out of the passageway

 

and we got some sidelines.

 

Already by then
I've shot 2/3 of a roll of film.

 

And I'm conscious of the fact
that I didn't really think I had anything.

 

I'm walking up the bridge,
and they're waiting for me,

 

and I just felt they looked so bleak

 

and they were so un-rock-'n'- roll-like,

 

that I took two frames and then took
an upright shot of the same thing,

 

and that's all I did of that picture.

 

And that's, I guess, become, probably,

 

the most recognized Joy Division image.

 

The whole idea was to get your band
signed to a major.

 

I was sitting in the Band on the Wall
one Sunday night with Gretton,

 

who suddenly turns to me and goes,

 

"Why don't we do our first album with you
and then go to Warner Brothers?"

 

I remember, far from being, "Wow,"

 

it was like, "Are you sure"?

 

"How much is that going to cost?"

 

"Martin says it will cost ten grand."

 

It cost 25, the bastard.

 

With Unknown Pleasures,
I think we had three weekends.

 

I could be wrong, but I think
it was three weekends to record and mix it.

 

So we played them all live.

 

So the first thing we did with Martin
was to just get them recorded in the studio.

 

And then it would be experimentation time,

 

and then he'd start putting wacky
noises on it,

 

like, he recorded the lift shaft.

 

It was kind of like you're going on some sort
of strange science-fiction-based journey.

 

There was a lot of pot smoked.

 

He wouldn't say to you,

 

"I want you to do it like this."

 

It was kind of all,
"Do it again, but a bit more cocktail party",

 

or "a bit more yellow."

 

"Magnificent but humble."

 

"Faster but slower."

 

- Whether it was pot or whether it was...
- You're right.

 

The Zen school of production, I don't know.

 

We're ready.

 

Let's try one.

 

Give me a fucking break.

 

Put coffee in.

 

Memorably at the AMS, a digital delay line.

 

He pressed the button,
hit the snare drum, it goes...

 

Oh, the snare drum's in the box now.

 

How have you done that, Martin?
That's amazing.

 

It was using that machine
that Martin changed drum sounds forever.

 

But I never knew that Martin
was significantly involved in creating the machine.

 

These two strange whiz kids from AMS,

 

Burnley, Lancashire, England,

 

had discovered Hannett and...

 

once a month they would meet him
in a car park

 

on top of the moors,
in between Manchester and Burnley.

 

And this lunatic... stroke drug addict
would climb out of his old Volvo,

 

into the back of their car,

 

and would rabbit on for 30 minutes
about the sounds he was imagining in his head.

 

I think Martin proposed
a way to understand Joy Division.

 

He heard something.

 

He saw something.

 

He felt something from them...

 

and was able to project in his mind
what it could be.

 

Well, the songs were great anyway.

 

Martin didn't write them.

 

He only produced them.

 

He started, you know,
chipping in when we needed him.

 

But that's the job of a producer anyway, really.

 

I just remember the whole...
the sleeve, you know.

 

It was just an uncanny moment
because it did belong in your collection,

 

next to Roxy Music, next to Velvet,

 

and it didn't look wrong.

 

It was just next to Diamond Dogs,

 

it was a great piece of work.

 

But it didn't borrow any of that language.

 

It didn't borrow any of that visual language.

 

It was totally itself,

 

and I couldn't work out how or where
it had come from.

 

I made the cover that I would have wanted,

 

had I found it in a record rack.

 

And nobody, um,
obliged me to do otherwise.

 

They'd given me the elements.

 

I mean, the wave pattern is astonishing.

 

I mean, one amazing image
for something called Unknown Pleasures.

 

I took it to Rob's house.

 

I took the artwork to Rob.

 

And he said,
"I have a test pressing.

 

Do you want to listen to it?"

 

I didn't know if I could sit
through 40 minutes of Joy Division,

 

especially in front of their manager.

 

Um, but I couldn't really say no,

 

and within moments I knew that I had a part
in a kind of life-changing experience.

 

Minute after minute was beyond anything
I could have expected.

 

It was just beyond.

 

It was astonishing.

 

And just as soon as it started,

 

and the drums sounded like
no drums had ever sounded,

 

and everything seemed to belong in its own space
and not quite connecting somehow.

 

Something amazing had happened.

 

I've been waiting for a guide

 

To come and take me by the hand

 

Could these sensations

 

Make me feel the pleasures of a normal man?

 

These sensations barely interest me
for another day

 

I've got the spirit, lose the feeling

 

Take the shock away

 

When Unknown Pleasures came out,

 

it was sort of like,

 

this is the ambient music for my environment.

 

I mean, you know,
when I think about Joy Division,

 

they're an ambient band almost.

 

You don't see them function as a band.

 

It's just the noise around where you are.

 

It was almost like a science-fiction
interpretation of Manchester.

 

You could recognize the landscape

 

and the mindscape and the soundscape
as being Manchester.

 

It was extraordinary that they'd managed

 

to make Manchester international, if you like,
make Manchester cosmic.

 

It's getting faster, moving faster now

 

It's getting out of hand

 

On the tenth floor, down the back stairs

 

It's a no man's land

 

Lights are flashing, cars are crashing

 

Getting frequent now

 

I've got the spirit, lose the feeling

 

Let it out somehow

 

Unknown Pleasures is also, of course,

 

a very iPod-ed kind of world.

 

It's urban, but it's not.

 

It's about... a landscape,

 

but that landscape is primarily an interior landscape.

 

And so, what is very,
very important about it now,

 

is to see where we've traveled from since then,

 

and exactly why it still sounds
so bloody contemporary.

 

I'm watching you, I'm watching her

 

I take no pity from your friends

 

Who is right, who can tell?

 

And who gives a damn right now?

 

Until the spirit new sensation takes hold

 

Then you know

 

Until the spirit new sensation takes hold

 

Then you know

 

Until the spirit new sensation takes hold

 

Then you know

 

I've got the spirit

 

But lose the feeling

 

I've got the spirit

 

But lose the feeling

 

Feeling, feeling, feeling, feeling

 

Feeling, feeling, feeling

 

When Unknown Pleasures came out,
it got universal critical acclaim.

 

It must be only me and Bernard
in the whole bleeding world

 

that don't like Unknown Pleasures,
you know, which is quite ironic, isn't it?

 

The only thing we agree on.

 

I mean, Unknown Pleasures,

 

I admit, even after we recorded it,

 

I find it quite difficult to listen to it myself
because it was so dark.

 

I don't think the production helped
because that made it darker, even darker still.

 

But I felt,
"Well, no one's going to listen to this.

 

It's too bloody heavy."

 

You know, it's too impenetrable.

 

We

 

Were strangers

 

We

 

I think also in our lives,

 

we'd all had very dark experiences, you know.

 

We were only, like, 21, but see, for me,

 

I had a lot of death and illness in my family.

 

And to experience such things at a young age
makes you quite a serious person.

 

Ian, I guess in his line of work,

 

what he did, you know, was quite serious.

 

We

 

Were strangers

 

For way too long

 

"She's Lost Control" was about a girl

 

that he worked with at Disability Center
that came in to, um, see him

 

and I think he really liked her, you know?

 

Thought she's a nice girl.

 

And he was trying to get her work
at a different place,

 

and one day, she didn't come in
and she died from a fit.

 

And... And he was quite shocked by that,

 

and I think he... that this was before
he had epilepsy himself.

 

And so he wrote "She's Lost Control" about her.

 

And you can see them now, as Ian Curtis sings
the brilliant "She's Lost Control".

 

Confusion in her eyes that says it all

 

She's lost control

 

And she's clinging to the nearest passer-by

 

She's lost control

 

And she gave away the secrets of her past

 

And said she's lost control again

 

And a voice that told her when
and where to act

 

She said I've lost control again

 

In September '79, we turned over to BBC 2,

 

and I'd never seen a TV performance like it.

 

Ian Curtis' performance and the band's performance

 

has just totally broke through
the plastic of the media.

 

Going from musicians
who couldn't even play their instruments,

 

suddenly they were a super group.

 

And I was just astonished to see this.

 

Dance, dance, dance, dance,
dance to the radio

 

Well, I would call out
when the going gets tough

 

The things you've learned
are no longer enough

 

No language, just sound,
that's all we need know

 

To synchronize love to the beat of the show

 

And we could dance

 

Dance, dance, dance, dance,
dance to the radio

 

They must have had a sense within the unit
that they'd done something special.

 

Ian's ambition, obviously, was the one ultimately
that created the great catastrophe.

 

But I think the others had
their own ambition within that.

 

Even it was just to be
the greatest bass player on the planet.

 

I just wanted us to be how we sounded live.

 

And it was purely that, you know.

 

I didn't want it to sound melancholy.

 

I didn't want it to lacerate.

 

I want just to lop people's heads off,

 

like, uh, Iggy Pop live.

 

I wasn't interested in depth or anything.

 

I just wanted to, you know,
kick them in the teeth.

 

Joy Division sounded like no one else.

 

Very, very powerful on stage.

 

And Ian on stage was something fascinating.

 

He sang and he danced in a unique way and...

 

Plan K, that was kind of like...

 

Ian had met Annik.

 

They never traveled much,
I think, as teenagers.

 

And when they first went to Europe, yeah,

 

I think something really happened for them.

 

It's a major milestone.

 

You're leaving home turf for the first time,

 

and we were playing a gig at Plan K.

 

Cabaret Voltaire was on the bill.

 

It was a converted sugar refinery,

 

So, you know, it was pretty arty.

 

So we went over there, and we thought,

 

"Right, you know, we're big time Charlies. "

 

The big attraction was that
they actually had William Burroughs.

 

Pay it all, pay it all,
pay it all back.

 

Play all your reports back.

 

The bands would play the concert space.

 

The other floors,
that was kind of performance art,

 

and then one room where they just showed movies.

 

Boys, school showers and swimming pools.

 

There was such an arty do.

 

Everyone was so arty, wandering around,

 

"Oh, God, Joy Division,

 

that's so wonderfully sublime, darling,"
in French.

 

I mean, the hilarious one there was when Ian decided
he was going to get a free book off William Burroughs,

 

because he felt like he'd read all of
William Burroughs' books and bought them,

 

so for some strange reason
he thought that this time,

 

William Burroughs would give him a free book.

 

And Bernard and I were most amused,

 

and we went with Ian to William Burroughs,

 

where William Burroughs was reading first,

 

and then he was doing the signing.

 

And, uh, he went over,

 

and me and Bernard
were pissing ourselves behind the pillar.

 

Can't remember what he said,
but we were there,

 

and then all we heard was William Burroughs'
"Aw, fuck off, kid!"

 

We have had enough of your common bullshit.

 

Oh, we used to laugh at him for hours.

 

Ian was so embarrassed.

 

Ian was a big Burroughs fan

 

because his writing was very much
a post-industrial nightmare.

 

It was about the bigotry and lack of ethics.

 

Cynical, hate-filled, totalitarian, dark underside,

 

greed of Western society gone mad.

 

The secret nature of perception...

 

- Good, thank you.
- The cut-up.

 

It all seemed to fit and suggest
that there was a way to integrate

 

that more artistic and literary idea
into what was otherwise a rather paltry glam rock,

 

prog rock wilderness.

 

As we became more popular
and started doing more and more gigs,

 

we just went,
"Right, we'll have to give our jobs up now.

 

Stop being semi-pro."

 

Fully professional.

 

The Buzzcocks tour was our first real sort
of experience of proper rock-'n'- roll

 

and, uh, roadies and all that.

 

And of course, their crew and Buzzcocks' crew
got up to all kind of stupid roadie mischief,

 

as did members of both groups.

 

He was pissing in the ashtray,
the dirty bastard.

 

Big lump of draw like that.

 

Caretaker came in.

 

There, eat that.

 

And he grabbed hold of him
while he was pissing in the ashtray...

 

It felt like my head had fallen off.

 

And he went, "Oh, oh, oh!

 

You tell me what you want me to do,
and I'll do it!"

 

He would show you his tattoo...

 

Bucket of maggots...

 

And coming out of his backside were two hands.

 

Live mice and put them in.

 

"Yeah, the gear's in the van, yeah."

 

So I opened the thing
and it was just full of beer.

 

"You must have these."

 

He'd robbed the bar!

 

And these two red stars.
"I'll have them."

 

Then the barman came out with about five bouncers.

 

Oh, it was like, you fucking twat...

 

Off his fucking nut.

 

Hallucinating.

 

Inane, laughing, grin on his face,
like a lunatic. Couldn't speak.

 

He's French, right?
He doesn't understand "Fuck off."

 

He went,
"All right, then, all right, then.

 

Fuckie offie!"

 

Once Joy Division really found their...
their seam,

 

they'd almost always start with Dead Souls.

 

Now, that track has a very,
very progressive, intense build-up.

 

There's nearly three minutes
before the vocal comes in.

 

Now, this gives Ian a chance
both to calibrate positioning himself,

 

to start to read what the atmosphere is
coming off the audience,

 

to feel how the band behind him
are locking in with each other

 

on that particular evening,

 

and to decide how high he wants to travel.

 

A lot of people thought
he was off his head on drugs,

 

and he wasn't... never ever, ever.

 

And, um, because he looked like he was on drugs,

 

but he was just...

 

the music seemed to just put him in,
like, a trance

 

and he'd just start dancing away,

 

and he'd go in, like, another world.

 

Keep on calling me

 

They keep calling me

 

That's Joy Division,

 

and it's called Dead Souls.

 

Always choose cheery subjects,
don't they, these boys?

 

I know that tens of thousands of you
are going to sit down

 

and write letters to me
here at BBC asking about that.

 

I can't really give you
a great deal of information

 

except that it's on
the Sordide Sentimental Label.

 

That's sordid with an E added
to the end of it

 

to make it look French because,
indeed, it is French.

 

It is available in one or two shops
and it comes in this sort of folder,

 

which makes it obviously larger than a record,

 

and, um, more book-like, in a sense.

 

He loved that record.

 

He was so proud, so proud of the sleeve,

 

of, uh, such a beautiful object.

 

It was quite funny because when it did come out,

 

in an edition of 1578,

 

Rob was down in London,

 

and he was handing them out,
you know, like, kind of,

 

"Have one of these. I just got this over from France.
Have one of these."

 

And then, you know,
two days later, they were gone,

 

disappeared forever.

 

And it had been widely distributed on cassette
because Peel played it all the time,

 

because he was, you know, feeling sorry
for all of those who couldn't get hold of a copy.

 

And I promise to play
the other side of it tonight,

 

and, indeed, I shall.
In fact, I shall do it on now.

 

Walk in silence

 

Don't walk away

 

Oh, curses, I'd forgotten.

 

Sorry. Oh, how irritating,

 

I'd forgotten that it was a 33 1/3.

 

I've remembered about half the times
I've played it.

 

The French, you see,
they flood the country

 

with millions of apples
that taste like cardboard,

 

and then send us records
that play at the wrong speed.

 

Anyway, I was talking
to my child bride on the phone...

 

It's just four young guys
who are standing there smoking, shaking,

 

like this, "Oh, yeah, okay", you know...

 

underdressed, malnourished,
you know, that's what...

 

what I always thought of the North of England.

 

It was quite a shock if you came from Holland,

 

where, socially, you know,
everybody was taken sort of care of.

 

Then you come to England,
and there's incredible... extreme poverty.

 

And, and, and, you know,
people drinking and smoking

 

and having just a little shirt on
and a thin coat.

 

And they stand outside in the winter.

 

It was hard to believe in these four guys there,

 

making jokes, and they were really lads, you know,

 

very young, and they could have such a deep,
heavy sound.

 

And certainly for Ian, when he was on stage,

 

he was coming out of himself.

 

He was a different person,
possessed by some very strong power.

 

And he looked like he was coming from another world
and, himself, in another world.

 

And very, very emotional.

 

He looked at the same time
very strong and very fragile,

 

very vulnerable, you know?

 

I think he was very brave to...

 

to sing and dance like he was doing.

 

We all live very boring, ordinary lives.

 

And with our great lead singers,

 

we look at them, and for that one hour,

 

we live life through their eyes.

 

Ian walks on, and he seems a little shy and quiet,

 

and then he just takes command of the stage.

 

Light comes onto him, and he goes inside.

 

Take a chance and step outside

 

Take a chance and say you tried

 

It was very much as if he was plugged
into some kind of huge electrical voltage

 

that was creating this sort of twitching, jerking...

 

tranced-out symbol for a human being.

 

Say you tried

 

Once he'd done that thing
where he shook himself into a frenzy,

 

you just didn't know where it was going to take you.

 

He was like a kind of puppet,
and you felt his vulnerability

 

in that puppet-like movement.

 

It was a bit like watching performance artists

 

who deliberately lacerate themselves,
cut themselves,

 

except with Ian, he didn't bleed.

 

But he sacrificed something of himself for you.

 

Say you tried

 

We've played in Europe already
and Holland and Germany,

 

and we are going to America.

 

We're only going for about two weeks, three weeks.

 

I'd hate to be on the usual record company,

 

where you sort of...
you do all the Odeons.

 

I just couldn't do that at all.

 

That experience like that supporting the Buzzcocks.

 

It was really, uh, soul destroying.

 

We played a concert
at Hope and Anchor in London.

 

I remember Ian being in a weird...

 

kind of a little bit childish mood.

 

Not quite himself, you know.

 

This was in the morning.

 

We drove down, and we did the concert,

 

and only about three people turned up.

 

It was about 2 in the morning.

 

We're driving back up the M1, you know.

 

And I had the sleeping bag on me,

 

and Ian just was moaning about the gig,
moaning about the sound, moaning about this,

 

and he said,
"Hey, give me that sleeping bag."

 

Which was not like him
because he wasn't a selfish person at all.

 

He turned around and grabbed the sleeping bag off me.

 

I said,
"Stop pissing around. Give it to me back."

 

And I pulled it, so he pulled it back.

 

I pulled it back, and then held onto it.

 

So he just wrenched it out of my hands,

 

put it over his head this time,
and wrapped himself in a ball,

 

and then just started making this weird
growling sound,

 

just growling, you know, like...

 

well, growling like a dog.

 

The next thing,
a hand comes out of the sleeping bag,

 

flashes out at Steve,

 

then comes out, punches the wind screen.

 

And then he just starts punching,

 

and that punching turned into a fully-fledged
grand mal fit in the car,

 

while Steve was driving.

 

I was like,
"Pull over, pull over, pull over."

 

Dragged him for his own protection out of the car,

 

and held him down, flat on the hard shoulder,

 

you know, dark, middle of the night
and just pinned his limbs down and...

 

while he basically had a fit.

 

After that, really,
he just got diagnosed with epilepsy,

 

and they just started getting
more and more frequent.

 

Those with epilepsy are going to have
a much more difficult life

 

because of the age-old stigma
attached to the word epilepsy,

 

and the real fear which people have of it.

 

We didn't know what to do.

 

You know, it's not one of those things
that you're used to.

 

I mean, we'd certainly never come across
people who'd had fits before.

 

You know, we... we were there, and...

 

we didn't know what to say to him.

 

Plus we're men. Men don't talk.

 

And we certainly didn't talk to each other.

 

So we just kind of carried on
the way we were carrying on,

 

which was working a lot,

 

and didn't give him much quarter, really,
in which to recover,

 

because basically, his doctor's advice was...

 

"Don't drink. Go to bed early."

 

You know,
"Avoid flashing lights."

 

Well, he was 22 or something.

 

Everything that boy has joined a band to do...

 

you know, the drink, the drugs, the women...

 

all of that is sort of written out of Ian's script.

 

You know, he did have epilepsy.

 

Very suddenly it occurred,

 

but he also had it very, very, very strong.

 

Big, you know, grand mal fits.

 

It wasn't... no messing about.

 

It was very strong.

 

Very strong, you know.

 

He couldn't pick his daughter up.

 

He couldn't drive a car.

 

He had to be careful at railway stations
that he didn't stand too near the edge.

 

As I witnessed a few of his...
of these fits,

 

you know, I can tell you it was really,
really frightening.

 

It was like he was being possessed by the devil.

 

I know it sounds silly to say,

 

but he was literally raising from the ground.

 

That's how I remember it.

 

Nowadays, in the mentally normal patient,

 

it should be possible to control fits
in at least 85%.

 

You've got to take lots of drugs,

 

and the drugs that you have to take,
they're really, really kind of heavy.

 

One day, he'd come in,
and he'd be laughing his head off and totally happy.

 

The next day, he'd come in,
and he would be depressed and in tears.

 

And he wasn't like that before,

 

before the drugs that he was on.

 

He wasn't like that.
He was much more...

 

didn't have the mood swings.

 

The other thing is, he obviously
had problems with his relationship

 

with his...
his girlfriend Annik and his wife.

 

They had to make a life decision there.

 

It was very, very, very difficult for him.

 

He had a child.

 

I don't know what was going on in his mind.

 

I really dread to think
what was going on in his mind.

 

I think he could see limits to the way
he was possibly going with the band.

 

I think the band were about to change
because they were becoming much bigger.

 

That, and they were on the verge
of becoming absolutely huge.

 

And creatively and psychologically,

 

that must have been a real challenge for him.

 

He felt that he was holding us back.

 

And he...
That was just probably one of the reasons

 

why he drove himself so hard,
was because he didn't want...

 

because he knew we all wanted it so badly,

 

and we were all enjoying it so much.

 

I think that his problem was
that he didn't want to let anybody down.

 

People started writing about them
in February 1980,

 

as if they were the second coming.

 

The weight of expectation upon them to come out
with the most amazing gig ever,

 

every time they played, was enormous.

 

I remember standing in the audience
at London University

 

and thinking,
"Oh, fuck, now they've got...

 

Now they've got a single."

 

You would first hear
Love Will Tear Us Apart live,

 

and you... you... you know,
you'd go "Oh, my God. "

 

Because you did have enough about you to think,
"That is a fucking great pop song."

 

You know, That could be number 1!

 

That kind of moment, because it was catchy.

 

Then love

 

Love will tear us apart again

 

Love

 

Love will tear us apart again

 

Why is the bedroom so cold

 

Turned away on your side?

 

Is my timing that flawed

 

Our respect run so dry?

 

Possibly one of the greatest songs
written in the 20... 20th Century by anybody,

 

because the way it kind of,
in a Shakespearean sense.

 

Take a Calexico, or, you know, a Susanna,
or a fucking Paul Young,

 

or, you know, it can take
into multiple interpretations

 

and constantly, constantly releases meaning.

 

It was an extraordinary piece of writing,
just the words, let alone that somehow,

 

these young northerners managed to find a way
to sonically piece together

 

music that matched the quality of the words.

 

None of them realize how strong and powerful
the music was.

 

You know, it's just like a love story.

 

Each individual is nothing on their own,

 

and when they click together,

 

when they are together, it's enormous.

 

And that was Joy Division.

 

They just had the light, the spirit.

 

When Ian says that he had spirit,
that's exactly it.

 

You know, he was something...

 

some light burning inside him.

 

He was gifted in a way that he would know
that this wasn't going to last forever.

 

He rang up once, and said,
"Yeah, I want to leave the band.

 

I'm going to move to Holland
and open a book shop."

 

Great.

 

Then the next minute, he was like,
"Oh, we're playing the Buffet on Saturday."

 

"I thought Ian was... "

 

"No, no, no, he's changed his mind."

 

"Oh, right, okay."

 

We would talk about ideas and writers and...

 

but most of all, he talked about his emotions,

 

and about himself and how he was feeling.

 

How every week he was becoming more and more...

 

shut off from what people perceived him to be.

 

That there were these two people
that were Ian Curtis,

 

the one that was the media figure
and the singer in the band,

 

and the actual Ian Curtis
who was hurt, angry, lost...

 

very lonely,

 

and didn't feel that people
would treat him with respect

 

if he explained who he really was.

 

There's no doubt that there is something
of the end point in Closer.

 

Unknown Pleasures is the...

 

Isn't it...
wouldn't it be great to be an artist?

 

Wouldn't it be great to be like Burroughs
and Bowie and Ballard and Iggy and Luke...

 

Wouldn't it be great to be like that?

 

I might have a chance to be like...

 

Oh, my God, you know.

 

And then Closer was the artist.

 

That was where he joined those ranks,

 

and therefore pulled Unknown Pleasures with him,

 

because that was the first step
towards becoming that kind of artist.

 

This is the way, step inside

 

If you were, at this time,
of an inquisitive nature,

 

Joy Division is like an Advent calendar:

 

You'd open up a window,
and you'd see a gateway to another place.

 

There'd be all of these roots out of the world
into other worlds, paranormal worlds.

 

An obvious example is Atrocity Exhibition.

 

I mean, you want to know,
"What Atrocity Exhibition?"

 

And then you find out,
"Oh, it's a book by J.G. Ballard."

 

And it opens up a whole other universe.

 

You take some of the references...

 

for example, Colony,
which is Franz Kafka.

 

And you take tracks like The Kill,

 

and see that the reference
is to Dostoyevsky or something.

 

It was like an education in itself.

 

This is the way, step inside

 

I thought Closer got closer to the sound
that I particularly wanted.

 

And I also enjoyed the experience
because we were away in London.

 

We were living in two flats.

 

Ian again was this kind of hoi polloi...

 

sort of the party flat at one end,

 

and the intellectual flat on the other end.

 

I was staying with them in that apartment, I remember.

 

And, um, I think I was the only girl around.

 

She was just sort of sophistication
to someone from Macclesfield...

 

you know, someone who used to ride pigs
for entertainment to be confronted with...

 

someone who works in an embassy.

 

We're just taking the piss
out of them all the time,

 

putting cornflakes in their bed and...

 

just japes, daft, stupid things.

 

Yeah, but she used to get so wound up, you know.

 

There was one night, I remember,
they had a glass pane in the door.

 

And we'd been taking the piss out of them,

 

throwing beer at them
while they were in bed or something,

 

you know, something daft.

 

Annik come fucking chased us out,

 

and we ran in our flat, hold the door shut,

 

and she was fucking kicking the door with her...

 

with her dressing gown on.

 

Yeah, like a fucking bloke would do, you know.

 

It was horrible.

 

I thought that was a horrible time.

 

Ian had Debbie on his case because...

 

and Hook had Iris on his case
because Ian had Annik there,

 

and Iris thought that was all wrong.

 

We got treated well at the studio.

 

Britannia Row, I remember them
bringing sandwiches in and tea and stuff.

 

We're like,
"Way posh", you know.

 

We used to drive Martin mad,
Bernard and I.

 

Bernard in one corner, me on the other.

 

"Hey, Martin.",

 

and he'd go,
"Your go."

 

I go,
"Your go. I asked about the..."

 

He'd go,
"What are you fucking whispering about?"

 

"Nothing, Martin, nothing."

 

Whilst they were there at Britannia Row,
Rob had the foresight to think,

 

"Well, we'd better go
and see Peter about a cover.

 

Who knows? It could take him weeks.
It could take him months.

 

So let's go and get him on that now."

 

I was very nervous.

 

I didn't want to sort of take something from a book
or the shelf and say "I like this."

 

and them kind of look at me and think,
"Well, you're just hopeless."

 

And there was something.
There was something I was very excited about.

 

There was a body of photographs
by a man called Bernard Pierre Wolff.

 

And I opened the magazine and put it on
the drawing board and stepped away.

 

And I think they just pointed at one
and said,

 

"We want this.
We want this for the cover."

 

It came to pass that it was
going to be called "Closer".

 

And it was interesting:
Closer, Closer.

 

I had no idea that it was going to be
the last thing that he did.

 

It's better than "Unknown Pleasures",

 

songs are better, everything...
you know...

 

He was a good laugh most of the time.

 

The only thing that sort of was sad about it
was Ian's illness,

 

but he hid that so well most of the time.

 

I remember talking to him one night.

 

Ian was saying to me that, um...
doing this album felt very strange

 

because he felt that all his words
were writing themselves.

 

And that he'd always in the past struggled
to complete a song, like, he'd have to start.

 

We'd all struggle to complete it.

 

But he just thought the whole song straight off.

 

And...
But he said, at the same time,

 

he had this terrible claustrophobic feeling
that he was in a whirlpool of being drowning,

 

and he was being pulled down in this whirlpool.

 

He was always recording on his own, you know.

 

The group would be recording the music
at a different time.

 

The image I would have in mind
was Ian was very tired and very, very quiet.

 

And every time he would sing,
he would turn his back

 

and put his hand on his head
or on his eyes.

 

And he was turned around from the others,
just to be in himself.

 

All the lyrics on the CD
are really depressing and sad.

 

And it's surprising nobody would pay attention.

 

We never really talked about his lyrics.

 

But we never really listened
to his lyrics that much.

 

It's only years on,
when you see them wrote down

 

when Debbie published them.

 

I thought,
"Oh, my God. Is that what you were singing?"

 

Maybe for the others, it was more like literature.

 

You know, Annik expressed how worried she was,
how fearful she was.

 

And I'm all kind of,
"No, no, no, it's just art.

 

It's just an album, for God's sake.

 

It's wonderful, I know,
but it's nothing to be frightened of."

 

And she said,
"Don't you understand, Tony? He...

 

When he says 'I take the blame',
he means it."

 

And I went,
"No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

 

It's just... it's just art."

 

How fucking stupid can you get?

 

When he cut himself up with a kitchen knife,
and, you know, he said he was pissed.

 

And when he took his first overdose,
you think you'd have stopped and sorted it out.

 

It seems, you know, a complete...

 

unbelievable to me that we didn't stop
and sort him out.

 

I think he was actually in a hospital...
and booked.

 

We'd already had a gig booked.

 

And I know that if we booked a gig,
it never got cancelled.

 

So Tony actually brought Ian down to the gig,
and he was in no fit state to play.

 

I got a phone call, and it was Bernard.

 

And he just said,
"Oh, um, Ian's ill, and we've got a gig tonight.

 

We were wondering if you'd like
to stand in for him."

 

Alan can go on, sing a couple,
and Ian can come and sing a couple,

 

but it didn't go down too well with the audience.

 

There was a big Victorian glass chandelier
suspended above the stage.

 

And somebody threw a bottle or a glass,
and it hit the chandelier square-on.

 

Bottles started flying,
and equipment got trashed.

 

Hook, he fancied a bit of a fight,
I think, at that point.

 

Twinny just kept cackling,
"Right, come on! Sack and assault."

 

And they'd all go out
and try to fight the audience.

 

But it turned into a, you know,
a complete fiasco.

 

It was horrible, and, of course,
it wasn't great for Ian,

 

'cause he immediately thought,
"Oh, right, all this is my fault."

 

He just burst out in tears.

 

He just thought, you know...
took the blame himself, you know.

 

He said that he was standing
in the wings at the stage,

 

watching the band play without him,

 

and he just had this feeling
that he was looking down

 

and they were carrying on without him,

 

and that they were gonna carry on without him,

 

which is kind of eerie.

 

The Bury gig was on a Tuesday,
and I said to Tony,

 

"Maybe you should suggest
that he come stay at our house."

 

'Cause we lived in the country.

 

And Ian drove back with us that night
after the gig.

 

We just sat in the lounge,
smoking and listening to music.

 

That was all we did.

 

He stayed at my house for a week.

 

I think Ian fell out with Debbie,
or he had fallen out with Debbie,

 

and just needed somewhere to stay,

 

so he stayed with me for a week,

 

which wasn't great for him,
because I was still in insomnia.

 

I was staying up till 5 in the morning,

 

but I remember coming back
from rehearsals one day,

 

and we took a shortcut through a graveyard,

 

and I said to him,
"You're lucky."

 

I said,
"Your name could be on one of those stones

 

if you had succeeded the other week."

 

And he was, like,
"Yeah, right. Yeah."

 

You know.

 

No sort of connection in the response.

 

And...

 

he had made his mind up, I think.

 

I read a book on hypnotic regression,
that...

 

if sometimes you've got problems in the present,

 

the regression could unlock, um,

 

problems that had occurred
either in your childhood

 

or in, if you believed in it, previous lives.

 

And Ian was like, "Oh, that sounds interesting.
I'd really like to try that."

 

So I said why don't we try it now
and record it on a cassette?

 

It's not difficult to realize that, you know,
he was, you know, seriously destabilized

 

by the whole matrix of things
that was going on at that time.

 

But he was also on the cusp
of exactly what he wanted,

 

which was to get out of Manchester,

 

to travel and see the world,
to go to America,

 

the land of some of his heroes.

 

Why would he want to do himself in
the night before that?

 

You know, it's 24 hours from Tulsa,
isn't it?

 

24 hours from the plane to America.

 

Going to America that Monday,

 

Ian had gone back to live with his mum and dad.

 

I called him Thursday or something,

 

and he just phoned me on the Saturday
or the Friday night, one of them.

 

He said,
"I can't go out tomorrow.

 

I'm gonna go and see Debbie
before we go away."

 

I did kind of think "Uh-oh" a little bit,
you know.

 

It's gonna end in tears, at least,
or they're gonna have an argument.

 

So, I said,
"Are you sure?

 

Why don't you just come out and have a drink,
we'll have a laugh, you know?"

 

He was, like,
"No, I've got to see her."

 

I was probably in Belgium for about five days
before I was due to return to go back to England.

 

The last time we spoke together
was on the Saturday night.

 

It was very short,
and I couldn't hear him very well.

 

I was in the backstage
with lots of people around,

 

and he said that it's imperative that we have to meet
before they go to America.

 

Because why, it would be like seven or eight weeks
without seeing each other.

 

And basically, we just agreed
that he should call me at home the following day,

 

and he told me he was listening to a record,
and he was going to watch a film,

 

and he was alone.

 

I was the first one to be told,

 

and it was really weird
because I was sitting down,

 

just about to have me Sunday lunch,
me and Iris, and the phone rang.

 

Literally like that.

 

I went on the phone, and they said,
"Oh, this is Police so-and-so.

 

We're trying to get in touch with Rob Gretton."

 

And I said,
"Oh, he should be at home."

 

He said, "Oh, we phoned him at home.
He's not there."

 

I said,
"Why, what's the problem?"

 

And he went,
"Oh, well, we've got a...

 

You know, sorry to tell you this,
but Ian Curtis has committed suicide."

 

And I went,
"Oh, right. Okay."

 

And he went, "Right, well, if you speak to Mr. Gretton,
could you get him to call us?" you know.

 

And I went,
"Yeah, right. Okay."

 

And put the phone down and went...
sat back, and had me dinner.

 

And then Iris said to me,
"Oh, who was on the phone, by the way?"

 

And I went,
"Oh, it's Ian. He's killed himself."

 

And that was it, then. That was...
you know, the shock of it.

 

It was really weird. Horrible.

 

When he first tried to commit suicide,

 

when he took the overdose,
it was a complete surprise.

 

In fact, when he actually did commit suicide,
and Rob told me,

 

I said,
"What, he's tried it again?

 

You know, I can't believe it.
He's tried it again."

 

And he said,
"No, he has. He's dead."

 

I was, like,
"What, he's tried it... "

 

He said,
"No, he's dead. He's done it."

 

Everything there seems a blur after that,
really, you know.

 

Just spent most of the time in the pub,
spent most of the time together, all of us.

 

Me, Twinny, Terry, Barney,
we'd all go and sit together.

 

Just sit in the pub together.

 

We just couldn't take it in, really.

 

It's hard to say.

 

Sort of 50% sad and 50% angry...

 

really.

 

Angry at him.

 

Really, for being stupid and doing that,

 

and angry at myself for not doing something.

 

Uh...

 

Yeah.

 

I arrived in London.

 

Ian never rang,
so I thought maybe there's a problem.

 

I should call his parents, at his parents,
because that's where he was staying...

 

where he was supposed to stay,

 

and, uh, when I called,
his father just said, "Ian is dead."

 

And he put the phone down,
and that was it.

 

I came home from work,
and there's this piece of paper.

 

I looked at it, and it says
"Singer kills himself on eve of tour."

 

You think,
"This isn't true"

 

and then you get a feeling of anger where you say,
"You twat. Why have you done that?"

 

"You bastard," you know,
"you should've stuck it out with the rest of us."

 

We didn't go to the wake.

 

I don't think we were welcome, really, somehow.

 

I mean, one of my greatest regrets in life is
I didn't go and see him, you know, after he was dead.

 

I really, really do regret that.

 

But I think we were so young,
we didn't know what the bloody hell...

 

Nobody offered it, you know.

 

I think if somebody said,
"Oh, you wanna go see him?"

 

We'd go, "Fuck you, mate.
Do I wanna go and see a dead body?

 

Do I fuck. You know, I'm 22.
I'm gonna go to the pub for a while."

 

But, you know, I really do regret not seeing him
and saying good-bye now. I really do.

 

It was only Bernard and I that didn't go.

 

Everybody else went, you know.

 

So then it was my job to look after Annik.

 

So I didn't go to the funeral
because it was my job

 

to make sure Annik got
on the plane back to Brussels,

 

and there was no scene at the funeral.

 

And sent me looking after Annik
for five or six days.

 

I'm sure Annik probably
doesn't remember this much,

 

but, uh, she was playing both albums
back to back, non-stop, 24 hours a day,

 

for about the entire time
she stayed in the cottage.

 

There ya go.

 

I didn't go to the funeral, but I went around
to Factory Records after the funeral,

 

and they played
The Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle.

 

I always remember that,
and I just remember being frozen throughout it,

 

and I think we all were in the room.

 

Um, frozen at the...

 

at the aptness and the absolute ridiculous
stupidity that we should be doing this,

 

so it was the classic
putting on a brave face, I guess.

 

And doing it in a showy way.

 

And not really dealing with the emotion.

 

It was almost like we were just
too damned self-conscious

 

about maintaining
a ridiculous kind of degraded cool,

 

a kind of cool that in a way,

 

a lot of that thing at that time was meant
to destroy, but we still, you know,

 

didn't really talk to each other.

 

The day Tony found me to tell me
that Ian had died,

 

it was during that conversation
that I suddenly thought of the cover we had.

 

And I felt it necessary to point it out.

 

And Tony was very concerned.

 

The... The notions of sensationalism
or exploitation were lying there,

 

and I said, "Tony, we've got a tomb
on the cover of the album."

 

And he was like,
"Oh, fuck."

 

'Cause Joy Division ends,

 

'cause it all ends with a jolt,
the jolt of a rope,

 

there's a tendency to end the story there.

 

I think the important thing
is not to end the story there.

 

Why did we decide to carry on?

 

We just carried on.

 

We never even thought, "Should we?
Should we carry on or not carry on?"

 

We went to the funeral,
went to the wake at Palatyne Road,

 

and then it was so...

 

"Monday?
All right, see you on Monday, then."

 

That was...
That was it.

 

I did everything

 

Everything that I wanted to

 

I let them use you

 

For their own ends

 

To the center of the city in the night

 

Looking for you

 

To the center of the city in the night

 

Waiting for you

 

The beauty of Joy Division
is that we did it, four of us.

 

Didn't know what we were doing,
didn't know why we were doing it.

 

The chemistry was unbelievable.

 

Take...
Talk to one of us, we didn't know.

 

Maybe Ian might have known.

 

I suppose that's something
we'll never find out.

 

But, you know,
it was just pure chemistry, four people.

 

And it was easy.
It was easy, writing those songs,

 

playing that well.

 

It was easy.

 

It only got difficult when he died.

 

The revolution that Joy Division created
and were at the heart of

 

and inspired many other people to take part in,
of not differentiating between dance and rock,

 

has resulted in this modern city,

 

and what was the original modern city becoming,
again, a modern city.

 

The vibrancy of the city,
the expectations of the city,

 

all those things are the legacy of Joy Division.

 

I think what they managed to do
had a kind of truth to it,

 

that has sustained
through the fluctuations of fashion.

 

And integrity,
something you can believe in,

 

something that didn't seem to be just for the money,
for the career, it was anti-industry,

 

all the things that ultimately seemed important
to the maintenance of popular culture.

 

The reinvention of what cool is.

 

Those that exploit, you know,
can make good use of something like Joy Division

 

because it explains some of the rules
of what it is to be cool.

 

The two works are
"Unknown Pleasures" and "Closer",

 

and that's it.

 

Everything else is merchandising.

 

Merchandising of memory.

 

We're living in a time
where brands are everything.

 

But Joy Division went beyond all that

 

because you could simply trust
what they were doing.

 

Joy Division in particular,
Factory in general, Ian's story,

 

is one of the last true stories in pop.

 

There are very few true stories
in a business-dominated pop culture.

 

Yes, it's a fabulous story,

 

the story of the rebuilding of a city
that begins with them,

 

the story of a tragic suicide,
a moral story,

 

and a cultural, academic, intellectual,
aesthetic story.

 

The heart of it is only here

 

'cause they wrote great songs,
and great songs never die.

 

Walk in silence

 

Don't walk away in silence

 

See the danger

 

Always danger

 

Endless talking

 

Life rebuilding

 

Don't walk away

 

Walk in silence

 

Don't turn away in silence

 

Your confusion

 

My illusion

 

Worn like a mask of self-hate

 

Confronts and then dies

 

Don't walk away

 

People like you find it easy

 

Naked to see

 

Walking on air

 

Hunting by the rivers

 

Through the streets

 

Every corner

 

Abandoned too soon

 

Set down with due care

 

Don't walk away in silence

 

Don't walk away